IIC 161: Integrity: That You Be One Inside

[00:00:00] Are you whole? Are you complete? Is your interior life intact? Are you sound in mind and heart and soul and spirit? In other words, are you integrated? Do you have an inner unity? Today, we are discussing integrity and integrity needs. Integrity. It comes from the Latin word integritas, which originally meant being whole, complete sound and unimpaired. It’s the same root as integer, which is a whole number. Later on, integritas and integrity came also to mean, honest, pure, blameless, and chaste, and that all derived from the original meaning of wholeness or oneness. John Roth in his article, Integritas: The Importance of Being Whole, said, ” Common usage tends to associate integrity with honesty, which is often equated with the type of moral goodness. But integrity is something else and is measured on a more intimate and personal scale. You can have honesty without integrity, but you cannot have integrity without honesty. Integrity is a virtue that is infrequently invoked and indeed all but lost in today’s contentious politicized climate.” 

[00:01:26] Honesty without integrity? Absolutely. Why? Because you can be brutally honest. Honest in a way that it’s cruel and hurtful to someone, and the church has identified detraction as a sin. The Catholic Encyclopedia defines detraction as the unjust damaging of another’s good name by the revelation of some fault or crime of which that other is really guilty. In other words, it’s being harmful to another by being overly and unnecessarily honest. An indiscriminately honest person might actually commit the sin of detraction. But, as Roth says, there’s never integrity without honesty. 

[00:02:11] So, integrity is that sense of an inner unity, a oneness inside, not being two faced. There’s an element of transparency to it. Like, what you see is what you get. And authenticity and honesty about it that runs through the entirety of the person. John Roth goes on to say, ” Like Cicero, we must re-invoke and reclaim our integrity and work to a new age whose times will not just foster in our youth the honest and the good, but also demand the whole and complete.” 

[00:02:43] In this episode, we will be discussing the whole and the complete, as well as the honest and the good, in terms of integrity needs that we all have. Today, I argue that in addition to the six attachment needs we’ve been discussing in recent episodes, there are a parallel series of six integrity needs that are far less known, but also absolutely critical. So, are you ready to join me in learning much more about being whole, about inner unity, about becoming more complete, about being more sound in mind, heart, soul, and spirit? Alright, then stay with me, Dr. Peter Malinoski, for this episode of Interior Integration for Catholics. 

[00:03:41] I am Dr. Peter Malinoski, also known as Dr. Peter. I am your host and guide in this Interior Integration for Catholics podcast, and I am so glad to be with you. I’m a clinical psychologist, a trauma therapist, a podcaster, a writer, the co-founder and president of Souls and Hearts. But most of all, I am a beloved little son of God, a passionate Catholic who wants to help you to taste and see the height and depth and breadth and warmth and the light of the love of God, especially God, your father, and also Mary, your mother, your spiritual parents, your primary parents. I am here to help you embrace your identity as a beloved little child of God and Mary. That is what this podcast is all about. That is what this episode is all about. And to bring that about, to live out our mission, I bring you new ways of understanding yourself, fresh conceptualizations informed by the best of human formation resources in psychology, always grounded in the authoritative teachings of the Catholic Church.

[00:04:41] And why? Why? So that you can flourish in love. This is Interior Integration for Catholics, episode number 161, and it releases on March 3rd, 2025. It’s titled, Integrity: That You Be One Inside. And this is the fifth episode into our series, Deep Dive into IFS in 2025, where we are really getting into parts systems thinking and internal family systems, grounded in a Catholic understanding of the human person. And today it’s a solo cast. I decided to do this one by myself. It’s been a long time. You actually have to go all the way back to episode 135, about 11 months ago, for the last solo cast. But it is so nice to be able to be with you more directly to be able to talk with you directly once in a while. 

[00:05:33] So let’s just review the attachment needs first. I know we’re going to be talking about integrity needs, but just a review of the attachment needs. We have been discussing attachment needs quite a bit. That’s been the focus of episodes 154, 155, 156, and 160, when Catholic psychologist, Dr. Peter Martin, has joined us as our expert guest. The six attachment needs. Now, the first five of these are derived from the 2016 book by Brown and Elliott, Attachment Disturbances in Adults. The first one, safety. My need to feel a sense of safety and protection in relationship. That’s self protection. Number two, recognition. My need to feel seen, heard, known, and understood. Number three, reassurance. My need to feel comforted, soothed, and reassured. Number four, delight. My need to feel desired, cherished, treasured, delighted in by the other. Number five, love. My need to feel that the other has my best interests at heart, holds a position of benevolence and beneficence toward me. And the number six one, that’s one I added because I thought it was really necessary. It’s belonging. My need to feel included, of being a valued member of a community with an important role. 

[00:06:53] Now, it makes sense for us in this podcast where we are so focused on human formation and so focused on flourishing to focus a lot on attachment because attachment needs, very important. Attachment theory and research has been highly influential in the professional literature and in more popular books and media. Thompson and Simpson in their 2022 article in the journal Attachment and Human Development wrote that, “Since its inception more than 50 years ago, attachment theory has become one of the most influential viewpoints in the behavioral sciences.” And that’s trickled down into countless popular articles, books, blogs, podcasts, TV shows, videos. And why? Why is attachment theory and attachment thinking so popular? Well, because it has amazing explanatory power, and it also has the capacity to bridge different fields and disciplines. 

[00:07:45] Jeremy Holmes in his 1993 book, John Bowlby and Attachment Theory, said, “Attachment is a unifying principle that reaches from the biological depths of our being to its furthest spiritual reaches.” In other words, it’s very comprehensive. Attachments are powerful. Clinical experience, personal experience, and a very wide and deep body of research support the central importance of attachment, attachment styles, and attachment needs, not only in recovery and rehabilitation from human deformations, but also for thriving and flourishing in life, in human formation.

[00:08:26] Patricia Crittenden, in her 2008 book titled Raising Parents, Attachment Parenting and Child Safety, writes that, “Attachment, even a transitional attachment, can make finding a new pathway forward possible.” And that, that is what we are all about at Souls and Hearts. Finding new pathways forward. Pathways that lead us to thrive and flourish. And we do that by focusing on your human formation. Human formation is the basis of all formation according to St. John Paul II. It’s foundational. And we are doing the human formation arithmetic so that you can do your spiritual formation algebra and your intellectual formation geometry, and finally, the applied mathematics of pastoral formation as I laid out in Episode 134 of this podcast.

[00:09:17] Now, as we’ve talked about before, each part has an attachment style and each part has attachment needs. Different parts hold different attachment needs which drive their agendas. And just as a review, because we love that spiral learning, what are parts? Well, parts feel like distinct, independently operating personalities within us, each with its own unique prominent needs, roles in our lives, emotions, body sensations, guiding beliefs and assumptions, typical thoughts, intentions, desires, attitudes, impulses, its own interpersonal style and worldview. Each part also has an image of God. Each part has attachment needs and integrity needs, but not in the same measure necessarily. 

[00:10:01] So what are these integrity needs? Integrity needs are the needs that parts have for wholeness, for unity, for soundness of mind, heart, soul, spirit, and body, the original definition of integritas. They’re the needs that parts have for integration, right? And if we don’t have this, we end up with fragmentation inside, disconnection, division, discord, internal conflict, and rebellion. And if we have all that going on inside, we are going to have that in our external relationships, too. We have this on the authority of Scripture from St. James, who said in his letter, chapter 4, verse 1, “Those conflicts and disputes among you, where do they come from? Do they not come from your cravings that are at war within you?” He’s telling us in the scripture that the conflicts and the battles we have externally reflect the battles and the conflicts we have going on internally, the cravings that are at war within us. Integrity needs are also the needs we have for goodness, for virtue, to adhere to a moral code, to my principles.

[00:11:16] So, let’s just highlight a little contrast between these integrity needs and attachment needs. Attachment needs are all about bonds to another person or to other people. They can also be about attachment taken inside, like Richard Schwartz talks about. That’s what IFS is all about. For right now, we’re just going to look at attachment needs about being about bonds to another person or to other people. Attachment needs are all about relationship, all about connection, mutuality, acceptance. Integrity needs are all about me as a single person, about being whole, intact, about being complete, about being inwardly coherent, inwardly united. And it’s also about being honest, innocent, morally good, and sticking to principles. So when you see what’s called an anxious attachment style, the parts in front that are driving that are likely to be more focused on attachment needs. But when you see more avoidant attachment, the part may be more focused on integrity needs, on that need to protect the integrity of myself. 

[00:12:33] Oftentimes people find themselves with a really difficult choice. And that happens when in a crucial relationship, like if you’re little and you have a parent, you may have this choice. You can either have your attachment needs met if you sacrifice your integrity needs, or if you try to preserve your integrity, you may not be able to attach successfully to the crucial person. Not every relationship allows for both integrity needs and attachment needs to be met simultaneously. That’s an unfortunate reality for so many people when they’re growing up. And so that can happen when the other person has an agenda for you. Their parts are in front, that are driving their bus, has an agenda for you. And they need you to conform to something that they need. That’s what they’re driving at. They’re not seeing you as a separate individuated person, but rather looking at you in orbit around them. 

[00:13:41] And so they may need you, for example, a parent may need a son to be admiring, to be idealizing, to be never critical. Right, but that can deny the lived experience of the child. So there’s this Hobbesian dilemma. Do I go along with dad’s agenda for me and do the hero worship thing and sacrifice my own understanding of my experience, my own integrity, and and stifle parts that are crying out against that? Or do I push back against dad, tolerate his frustration and anger and wind up disconnected and not in relationship? That’s the dilemma. 

[00:14:25] So I came up with these six integrity needs over decades of work with, you know, accompaniment of other people in various ways. And I’ve noticed that a lot of times these six integrity needs were neglected. They were often overshadowed, if you will, by a focus on the attachment needs. These are the six integrity needs: survival, importance, agency, goodness, mission, and authentic expression. So let’s go through these one at a time. Alright, survival, importance, agency, goodness, mission, and authentic expression. Let’s start with survival. Alright, what is it briefly? 

[00:15:09] Well, survival is my need to exist and to survive. Pretty straightforward. Next one, importance. That’s my need to matter in the world, to be significant. Agency. That’s my need for autonomy, to be able to exert influence on others and to make at least a small difference in the world. It’s agency. Goodness. This is my need to be good in my essence, in my person, but also my need to be morally good. Number five, mission, my need for a mission, a purpose, a vision to guide my life. And number six, authentic expression, my need to share and communicate with others what feels true and real within me rather than have to pretend otherwise. Alright, so that’s the brief summary of these six. And again, just to list them, survival, importance, agency, goodness, mission, and authentic expression.

[00:16:17] Now we’re going to go into a deeper dive for each of these. Alright, Survival. Survival. This is my need to continue in existence and to survive. There’s this strong sense that if we die, it’s over. There’s these deep drives for survival. Freud discussed this at length, saw it as a primary drive to survive physically. We’re going to discuss that first. To survive physically, to preserve bodily integrity, to keep body and soul together, to avoid a physical death. This is illustrated in Neal Shusterman’s book, Dry, where the character, Kelton McCracken, illustrates with great clarity the integrity need for survival when he says, “When real danger arises, we’ll be the ones who survive. And not just because we own a 357 Magnum, three Glock G19s, and a Mossberg pump action shotgun, but because we’ve been prepping, in every possible badass way, since as long as I can remember, for the inevitable collapse of society as we know it. Alright. Kelton McCracken has parts up front that are resonating with the stark terms that Carl Sagan laid out in his book Cosmos, where he says, “Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” This is the first one of the integrity needs, survival, and if we are dominated by parts who are in fear of physical annihilation, we will not connect well with others. We’re not going to be worried so much about attachment needs, to be honest with you, because we are fighting to survive. If we don’t survive physically, there’s no chance of any kind of attachment with anybody.

[00:18:14] So there’s a hierarchy, a priority here, at a very gut level, at a very primitive mammalian level, right? And if we are really jacked up, if we are in a fight or flight mode, if we’re shut down in that freeze mode, if we’re outside our window of tolerance, there’s no new learning that’s going to happen. There’s no new neural pathways that are going to develop. Yann Martel, the author of The Life of Pi, says, “When your own life is threatened, your sense of empathy is blunted by a terrible selfish hunger for survival.”

[00:18:55] Physical survival isn’t the only thing, though. We also have to survive emotionally, psychologically. And that’s often very difficult in relationships when the other doesn’t see you as a separate individual, but rather locates you in orbit around him or her. Parents, dominated by parts who require their children to meet their attachment needs and their integrity needs, can suffocate them. They can suck the life out of them. And sometimes when they’re old enough, these children flee, seeking to survive, right? They may become estranged from their parents, or maybe they just shut down. A lot of times I’ve heard this expressed as, “I can’t breathe around you.” 

[00:19:41] So that’s a kind of emotional psychological survival, but there’s also spiritual survival. This is where we’re looking toward the next world and I spent a lot of time on this in episode 87 in, that was titled, Scrupulosity: When OCD Gets Religion. In that episode, there was this discussion we had about fixation on sin, especially mortal sin. And why the fixation on mortal sin? Was it because people really were desiring a deep relationship with God? Actually, when people are really caught up in a lot of scruples, they’re not thinking about intimacy with God as much as being barely tolerated by God, as much as not being totally rejected by God, not going to hell where they would be spiritually annihilated forever. The scrupulous person is focused on his integrity, and his integrity in the second sense of the word, his moral goodness, his adherence to the moral law. And this is very isolating. It doesn’t allow for a lot of attachment. 

[00:20:46] Father Thomas Santa, in his book, Understanding Scrupulosity, writes that, “When people struggle with the scrupulous disorder, most of the suffering, fear, and anxiety they experience happens in isolation. Those suffering from scrupulosity tend to retreat from relationships. They tend to avoid attachments. They’re very focused on this second sense of integrity, becoming good enough to survive, good enough to not be condemned to hell by God. They’re trying to survive. That’s the critical integrity need. Spiritual survival. Avoiding death and mortal sin so that one can avoid everlasting annihilation in the fires of hell. 

[00:21:36] All right, so I want to bring parts into this, right? So we talked about briefly a scrupulous part of a person that’s got this particular need. There’s other parts too, and I’m drawing these from the PartsFinder Pro. The PartsFinder Pro is a battery of 18 measures that we offer that’s part of the admission procedure, the registration and application procedure for the Resilient Catholics Community. And we’ve done several hundred of these now, more than 700. And so these are parts from the PartsFinder Pro. I’m going to use some very typical parts that we find and connect them to each of these integrity needs. 

[00:22:15] So one of the things that we see pretty frequently is a hiding part. It’s a manager. And it’s a manager who conceals the intensity of other parts experiences, keeping them out of your conscious awareness, and thus preventing you from becoming overwhelmed with the intensity of their sadness, grief, anger, fear, disappointment, and or other strong emotions. Your hiding part may also try to conceal other parts of you from God. The unintended consequences of her efforts include making it harder for you to know your whole self, especially your whole heart, and making it difficult for others to know you deeply. In other words, this hiding part is keeping parts suppressed outside of conscious awareness. Why? Because there’s kind of two reasons there. Number one, emotional or psychological survival. If I let these parts out, they are going to come with the intensity of their emotions and they are going to overwhelm me. I won’t be able to function in the world. I will be very vulnerable to not being able to exist and survive. The other one also may be, these parts are unacceptable to God. If I let these parts out, there may be blasphemous swearing. There may be intense desires, sexual desires that are disordered. There may be all kinds of anger and rage that could, you know, fuel impulses that would be really harmful, that would be really sinful. So there could be a survival element on the spiritual side too, especially if one believes that those sorts of things could lead to mortal sin and if there’s death then you’re going to hell. 

[00:23:56] Another part would be an emotional distancer who proactively protects against the experience of emotions, finding them dangerous because of their propensity to overwhelm you. She inhibits anger, aggression, sadness, grief, shame, or other emotions. Positive experiences such as joy, warmth, affection, playfulness can also be shut down. And you can imagine, again, that that shutting down of the emotion, that that really limits the capacity to attach to other people.

[00:24:26] A third part, those two were protectors, but this one is an exile, is a mistreated part. Now, mistreated exiled parts often assume that others will harm, mistreat, humiliate, cheat, deceive, manipulate you, or exploit you. And these parts often believe that the harm is intentional, or it’s the result of unjustified, severe negligence. And so, consequently, mistreated parts distrust other people. They’re suspicious and fearful of others, including God. So, they’re very hesitant. They’re very much like that horse in the scene of The Horse Whisperer. Very distrusting of human beings, right, often because of betrayal trauma. And so, those parts may be very much more focused on integrity needs and not so much on attachment needs because of the deep issues they have with trust. Alright, so that is a summary of what’s going on with that integrity need of survival. 

[00:25:28] Let’s move on to importance, right? What is importance? Well, it’s my need to matter in the world. To be significant. The need to have a place in the world. To have a role in the world. And this has to go beyond what Albert Einstein said. He said, “You are living. You occupy space. You have a mass. You matter.” I don’t know about you, but I have never found that that kind of approach would be helpful, right? Like to say you occupy space, you have mass, like, okay, that’s hardly inspirational, but maybe that’s the kind of therapeutic intervention that a theoretical physicist can offer. I don’t know. We need to be more than just a product of random gene mutations and survival of the fittest after ages and ages of the evolution of man. We need to have existential importance, not just to be a random collection of molecules whirling around in space with other random collections of molecules. 

[00:26:34] Richelle E. Goodrich said, “The biggest lie we fall for is that it doesn’t matter. Your opinion doesn’t matter. Your existence doesn’t matter. You don’t matter. It’s the worst, most destructive lie we ever believe. And in consequences, it wreaks extensive damage to more lives than your own. Don’t fall for that evil lie. Don’t forget that everything about you absolutely does matter.” Now we can pick up the idea that we don’t matter when we are treated by others as if we don’t matter. And that happens more than one might think, especially in cases where there’s neglect, where there’s just a lack of attunement, a lack of engagement, communicates to the child that you don’t matter. I’m wound up in my own world. I don’t have time or the energy or the capacity to connect with you. You don’t matter. That has to be corrected. 

[00:27:40] And what’s the message we get from God? Well, that he knows the number of hairs on our head. You are more important than many swallows. We need to be important because of our intrinsic beings, to exist as important independently of any other human being’s opinion or valuing of me. And I need to matter because I am my unique me. Irreplaceable, not replicable in the universe, the only one. Danielle Doby said, “You are worth finding, worth knowing, worth loving. You and all your one million layers. Always hold that close.” 

[00:28:22] I need to have a place in the cosmos, not to be just a forgotten little creature whirling around on a forgotten little planet in a tiny little solar system on the edge of an insignificant galaxy. I need to matter. Hafiz said, “I wish I could show you when you are lonely or in darkness the astonishing light of your own being. “

[00:28:46] Importance. Importance. And again, this is not just importance in relationship. This is a sense of being important in my own right, independent of any relationship with another human being, not drawing my self-worth from the opinions of other human beings, but because I’m made in the image and likeness of God. I’m important. 

[00:29:11] What kind of parts may really be motivated in one way or another by this integrity need of importance? Well, one is a self absorbed part who attempts to protect your exiled parts from further humiliation, shame, and degradation by seeking the admiration, respect, and esteem from others. Her intense focus on preserving your dignity and integrity causes her to be very inwardly focused, unable to attune well to others’ internal experience and not readily able to consider the needs of others. When your self absorbed part does not receive the affirmation she craves from others, she can become frustrated and angry. Her longing for affirmation occurs in both natural and spiritual relationships. She deeply desires recognition and approval, and when these are not sensed, she may devalue and blame others. Okay, this is not about entering into relationship with others though. This is about using the feedback from others to bolster a really fragile sense of self worth. It’s an instrumentationalization of others. It’s not about a real relationship with others. It’s about seeking out others for narcissistic supplies. And I talked a lot about this in the series I did on narcissism. That is about a deep sense of inadequacy, a deep sense of worthlessness. That’s one kind of part that is struggling with a sense of importance.

[00:30:43] Another one is a controller who works hard to try to protect you against feeling inadequate and not good enough. The controller enforces a disciplined control over other parts in her efforts to carry out the mandates of your internal critic or maybe your Catholic standard bearer. This part exerts pressure for excellent performance to protect you from being shamed by others or experiencing shame within your own system. So much of these integrity needs are about warding off a deep sense of shame. Especially that sense of shame around being worthless, inadequate, not enough, not good enough. Your controller imagines that if she manages to do everything perfectly, nothing bad will happen. And your controller may undermine your sense of self worth and ontological goodness because there’s always this pushing for more, pushing harder. All right. So that is importance, right? 

[00:31:38] We’ve covered the first one, which was this survival, then importance. That leads us now to agency, right? So what is agency? We’re going to get into this in greater depth. That’s my need for autonomy, to be able to exert influence on others and to make at least a small difference in the world. I need to not be a victim of circumstances. Charles Swindoll said, “Life is 10 percent what happens to you and 90 percent how you respond to it.” And at some level, I think we know this. We have this sense deep inside that my destiny can’t be completely determined by the fates, by powers beyond my control. Susan Jeffers said, “You are innately designed to use your personal power. When you don’t, you experience a sense of helplessness, paralysis, and depression, which is your clue that something is not working as it could.” There’s this sense that I’ve been given a will, a free will, and I need to exercise it freely. I need to make my mark in the cosmos. And Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers, said, “If you could only sense how important you are to the lives of those you meet, how important you can be to people you have never even dreamed of, there is something of yourself that you leave with every meeting with another person.”

[00:33:03] Now, this integrity need of agency can sometimes be denied and undermined. It can go unmet when parents overprotect a child. We’re talking about helicopter parents that are trying to save their children from any discomfort, from any sense of failure, from any damage to their self esteem. Brene Brown, in her book Rising Strong, said, “Hope is a function of struggle. If we’re never allowed to fall or face adversity as children, we are denied the opportunity to develop the tenacity and the sense of agency we need to be hopeful.” We need that to be hopeful, to be able to overcome difficulties, challenges, tribulations. 

[00:33:49] Dr. Susan Forward speaks directly to this in her book, Toxic Parents. “Children who are not encouraged to do, to try, to explore, to master, to risk failure, often feel helpless and inadequate. Overcontrolled by anxious, fearful parents, these children often become anxious and fearful themselves. This makes it difficult for them to mature. Many never outgrow the need for ongoing parental guidance and control. As a result, their parents continue to invade, manipulate, and frequently dominate their lives.” 

[00:34:26] If there is too much chaos going on, or if there’s a family or cultural belief that you can’t impact the course of events by your choices, agency needs go unmet. Vice President J. D. Vance, in his book, Hillbilly Elegy, says, “Psychologists called it learned helplessness, when a person believes, as I did during my youth, that the choices I made had no effect on the outcomes in my life.” That’s an external locus of control. That’s learned helplessness. That’s embracing the identity of someone whom the fates control. 

[00:35:09] And M. Scott Peck, in his book, The Road Less Traveled, said, “You know, we do not have to love. We choose to love. No matter how much we may think we are loving, if we are in fact not loving, it is because we have chosen not to love, and therefore do not love, despite our good intentions.” Good intentions, this is really an important point, going beyond what M. Scott Peck just said. Good intentions are not enough. We actually have to have the capacity in our will and in our other faculties to be able to provide others what is really oriented toward their best. It’s not just about goodwill. It’s also about beneficence. Not just about benevolence, goodwill, it’s also beneficence. It’s the capacity to bring about the good. And for that, we have to have developed agency, right? Agency, that’s my need for autonomy, to be able to exert influence on others, and to make a small difference, at least in the world. And it could be a small difference. Mother Teresa said, We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less without that drop. And Martin Luther King said, If I cannot do great things, I can do small things in a great way. 

[00:36:34] All right, so what kind of parts, what kind of parts might be really caught up in this integrity need of agency? Well, the first one I’m going to mention is an autonomous part. And she may believe she must do everything herself. She finds comfort in a sense of being in control, has a need to be seen as competent from others. She works really hard to complete tasks, follow schedules, maintain order and control so that, at least in her estimation, things run smoothly. That kind of part can feel threatened when others do not cooperate with her plans or when she’s confronted by limitations. She may respond in anger when she cannot control things. And so, when she’s active in your system, she may be unable to attune well to others internal experiences, and may feel overwhelmed by the needs of others, disruptions in her plans. And when her efforts are thwarted, that can increase situational stress and may fuel the grievances of other parts of you.

[00:37:33] So there can be this hyper focus on agency, like we see with some of these controllers. It’s sort of like a way of, of compensating, these autonomous parts controlling, for a perceived felt of a lack of control when other parts are in front. 

[00:37:50] Agency is really important to driving parts as well. So again, these are from some of the templates we use with the PartsFinder Pro. A driving part who demands performance and achievement with highly efficient behaviors that enable you to reach goals and make great progress in your endeavors. Your driving part acts in ways which can be intimidating to those around you as she presents powerfully to proactively protect you from feeling shame and inadequacy. There you’re seeing that shame and inadequacy again, which is what these integrity needs are all trying to ward off. Your driving part aims to decrease or eliminate your feelings of being threatened or frightened by others. Her energy and striving for success may lean toward a type of perfectionism that can lead to physical, emotional, even spiritual overwhelm and create openings for other protector parts to come into her lane and shut down her endeavors and give up the mission she’s driving towards. So again, that’s another example of how agency can become hyper important, right? When there are other parts who are feeling totally out of control or like they have no capacity to impact the world. All right, so that’s the third one, agency.

[00:39:08] So we’ve covered survival, importance, and agency, and that leads us now to goodness. Goodness. And this is my need to be good in my essence, to be good in my person ontologically, and my need to be morally good. So we have two levels there. We have ontological goodness. I’m not just good for what I do. It’s not just to do good that my actions are functionally useful or valuable or pleasing to someone else. Or that my actions are morally good, but that I am good in my being. There are so many people that do not have a deep sense of being ontologically good, good in their essence. So many parts, that is such an alien idea in any kind of felt way. I mean, people may know the catechism answers to those sorts of things. They may be able to rattle off how, you know, they are made in the image and likeness of God, and so they are good, and very good, and so forth, but they’re not feeling it. So, we need to experience a sense of ontological goodness in my bones, across my parts. 

[00:40:19] This is the Declaration of the Dicastery of the Doctrine of the Faith, titled Dignitas Infinita, On Human Dignity. And in paragraph 7, it says, “Ontological dignity belongs to the person as such, simply because he or she exists, and is willed, created, and loved by God. Ontological dignity is indelible, and it remains valid beyond any circumstances in which the person may find themselves.” Paragraph 11, “To be created in the image of God means to possess a sacred value that transcends every distinction of a sexual, social, political, cultural, and religious nature. Our dignity is bestowed upon us by God. It is neither claimed nor deserved. Every human being is loved and willed by God and thus has an inviolable dignity.”

[00:41:16] All right. So, again, we can understand that we can appreciate that intellectually. That kind of sense of dignity though, comes when we have been cherished and treasured by others and have felt that deeply. And it helps when it’s happened from more than one person, because then the parts can begin to triangulate and say, Oh, others have treated me with this dignity. And so therefore, it’s not just that I have risen to the level of being lovable and loved because of their particular idiosyncrasies, but because there’s something intrinsic and essential about me that calls for that response. 

[00:42:01] We have an example of this in the novel Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson. And this is where Mr. Freeman, a teacher, says to Melinda, a student, “You’re a good kid. I think you have a lot to say. I’d like to hear it.” It’s a really significant line in the novel because Melinda’s got a lot of issues and no one seems to believe in her to trust in her. She’s not on others radars very well. Now we want to make sure that we are tuned into this, because if we don’t get the first sense of goodness, we might try to overcompensate with the second sense of goodness. If we don’t have a sense of being ontologically good, and that we have sacred value simply because we exist, because God created us in his image and likeness, we may try to compensate on the other side of goodness, which is that moral goodness, and that can bring up perfectionism. 

[00:43:01] Now I discussed perfectionism at length in episode 85 of this Interior Integration for Catholics podcast titled Perfectionism: Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How. I’ve gotten feedback on that episode many times where people have said, I never realized there were so many different ways that perfectionism could manifest. There’s lots and lots of ways that people can be perfectionistic. I had people tell me, I never realized I was perfectionistic, but I meet that I meet the definition of one of those forms that you laid out there. And it’s really important. 

[00:43:34] And we have an example of this, an example of how perfectionism can get in the way in John Steinbeck’s novel, East of Eden. Now that is a difficult novel for a depth psychologist to read because it just lays bare so much trauma and so much grittiness, so much deformation at a human level that happens in response to trauma. There’s a lot of trauma described in detail in that book. But one of the heroes in that book, Lee, says to another, “And now that you don’t have to be perfect, you can be good.” Right? I’m often heard saying, you know, the best is the enemy of the good. And if we have to be perfect in order to be loved, because that’s what this can escalate into, right? Because this model of trying to become morally good enough to be loved is really a form of Pelagianism. It’s trying to earn the love of God or trying to earn the love of others, right? And it never works. It’s like being a hamster on that wheel. The faster you run, the faster the wheel spins, but you don’t make any progress going forward.

[00:44:45] Alright, so that’s where it can mix in with attachment needs, the need to be good enough to be loved, right? Because what happens is, if I was not loved by critical people when I was growing up, the parents for example, I can assume, parts of me can assume, that it was because I was not lovable. If I become good, then maybe I can become lovable, and then maybe I can be loved.

[00:45:10] Alright, so what kind of parts might, be caught up in this sense of goodness? Well, one of them is a Catholic standard bearer, right? The one that holds the standards, who functions as a good girl in your system. And I’m using the example all for women here, for some reason. I don’t know why. Well, it’s what I pulled off of the template for the PFP. So, you know, you can substitute, you know, a good boy if you’re a guy, okay? But a Catholic standard bearer who functions as a good girl in your system, wanting to keep you on the straight and narrow, following her code of conduct, which is designed to make you lovable and good enough in the eyes of God. Again, this isn’t, this is often again about like not being rejected by God. Maybe it’s about being loved by God. Some parts can get there, but these parts, these Catholic standard bearers hold up unrealistic expectations that other parts try to enforce, maybe an internal critic, maybe a competent manager. Your Catholic standard bearer likely sees God as very demanding and distant and watches your conduct to make sure it stands up to the strict moral criteria that she believes God wants for you.

[00:46:16] But the interesting thing about these Catholic standard bearers, as you get to know them, as you get to work with them in other people’s lives or in your own, is that they never ask God if this is what God wants. They assume that God wants these things and they don’t check it out with him, partly because they’re really terrified about entering into direct personal relationship with God. So they’re operating off of a set of assumptions that were formed into them in other powerful relationships with other powerful people that do not actually generalize to God. Catholic standard bearers. 

[00:47:01] People also have Catholic referees and Catholic referees make sure that you follow the rules according to the code of conduct based on an understanding of Catholic teachings. These referees aim to help you to be a winner in God’s eyes, try to keep you on the straight and narrow with strict moral criteria and often a lot of moral pressure, right? And that pressure is for you to be perfect or near perfect in untidy areas, such as loving or praying. Very difficult to become perfect in loving and praying, right? 

[00:47:36] Also, there could be a mirror part who attempts to protect you from further humiliation, shame and degradation by seeking the admiration, respect and esteem from others, right? Trying to hang on to your dignity, trying to hang on to your integrity. So this mirror part can be really active in your system. And when that happens, it’s not easy to focus on other people and what their needs are. So that can happen, right? 

[00:48:03] There can also be an intimidating protector. This is a firefighter who desires you not to be mistreated any longer, and who wants to set protective limits and boundaries. Her anger can fuel limit setting, and justice seeking in intense ways that can harm relationships. This part is trying to preserve your sense of goodness, to not have you take any more badness from others. That can mean that she works to make sure that relationships remain superficial or impersonal, attempts to protect your exiles from further mistreatment or humiliation by confronting others. 

[00:48:36] Self punisher is another one. I’m not going to get into that one at length. But so many of these parts are trying to preserve a sense that either you have existential goodness or that you are morally good. You know, that you are meeting your code, your standards. And that’s not where our sense of identity should come from. It should come from us embracing, as I said at the beginning of this podcast episode, and every podcast episode, embracing your identity as a beloved little son or daughter of God. God saying, I loved you first, before you had agency, before you could make moral choices. Right, so that is the fourth one, right and that is goodness, right? So the first one, that is a sense of survival. Second one, importance. Third one, agency. Fourth one is the sense of goodness. 

[00:49:35] Fifth one now is mission. And mission is my need for mission, purpose, and a vision to guide my life. I need to follow my personal calling, my vocation. And we have been discussing personal vision values and mission statements in my semi monthly reflections. You can check those out at soulsandhearts.com/blog. We’ve been going through, since August of 2024, we’ve been going through these specific ways of laying out a personal vision statement, a personal value statement, and a personal mission statement. W Clement Stone said, “When you discover your mission, it will fill you with enthusiasm and a burning desire to get to work on it.” And what’s really interesting in this and something that I’m bringing out in those reflections is that your mission is not something that you create for yourself. It’s not something you put together that you build for yourself. It’s something that you discover. It exists waiting for you. It is predetermined by God. And finding it and embracing it brings in a sense of freedom, purpose, a sense of direction that is unlike anything else in the natural realm. There’s this deep need we have to journey, to travel along a road that I know I am supposed to follow.

[00:51:02] And Coulter Reed, in his article, Why Everyone Should Have a Personal Mission Statement, says, “A mission statement serves as a personal constitution, giving us a framework to guide our decisions from our life plan all the way down to the heat of daily battle.” I need something to live for, something to die for. Parts need this. Something that makes meaning out of the sufferings and hardships of life. Mark Twain said, “The two most important days in life are the day you are born and the day you discover the reason why.”

[00:51:41] Stephen Covey in his little booklet titled How to Develop Your Personal Mission Statement says, “The power of the personal mission statement lies in your vision and in a commitment to that vision, that purpose, and those principle centered values. They will control your decisions, determine your outlook, and provide the direction for your future.” I need something much bigger than me, something to conform my life to, something or someone who calls me. 

[00:52:10] Now as we get to mission, we are moving, in a sense, up the hierarchy of these integrity needs. You’re not going to be really focused on mission if you are all caught up in survival. You know, you’re not going to be focused on mission if you don’t have a sense that you have any importance, right? You certainly can’t pursue a mission if you don’t have a sense of agency, it wouldn’t make sense. It wouldn’t make sense for JD Vance as a youngster, believing that his choices don’t impact any outcomes for him, to be even considering putting together a mission statement. Right, so there’s a hierarchy to these integrity needs that I just wanted to point out there. 

[00:52:54] So what kind of parts are caught up in mission? Well, we have these do it myself manager parts that may believe that they have to do everything themselves, they have to work hard at completing tasks, following schedules, planning, organizing, to make things work out, to follow a plan. That’s one, you know, and they try hard, these do it yourself managers, not to need anyone else, and they may be your primary managers. The fact though is that, to be honest, you don’t typically see a lot of managers that are unblended, really focused on mission. Why? Because typically, when there’s a lot of deep blending, there’s more impairment than that. They’re focusing on integrity needs or attachment needs that are much more basic, that are really much more primitive. So you’re not usually going to see that. 

[00:53:57] And that brings us to authentic expression. And that’s my need to share and communicate with others what feels true and real within me, rather than to pretend otherwise. Parts know the truth of what Samuel Taylor Coleridge wrote when he said, “What comes from the heart, goes to the heart. What comes from the heart, goes to the heart.” That means that when we speak from the heart, from the center of our being, it reaches other people’s hearts. And that saying is often attributed to the Jewish sages from the Mishnah or the Talmud or the Midrash, but there are no direct references to it, at least in my understanding. Sometimes added on to that statement, “What comes from the heart goes to the heart,” you will also hear added, “what comes from the tongue, does not pass the ears, right?” So, if we’re speaking from the heart, that’s so different than when we’re merely speaking from the tongue. And that goes to this integrity need of authentic expression. That what we’re saying is what we believe in the deepest reaches of our being. Or at least in deep reaches of our being. Maybe not the deepest, but it’s still there in some way. Can it be expressed, or does it have to be suppressed, denied? You know, it doesn’t have to be hidden, right. 

[00:55:23] And even if what parts of me are saying, or what they believe, or even if what they’re interpreting is not a correct understanding of what their experience is, those parts still need to be able to say their piece. We need to be able to open our hearts to ourselves and we need to be able to open our hearts to the world, tolerating the vulnerability that requires. So what happens is there’s often so much grief, loss, sadness, rage, fear, or joy. Sometimes joy gets suppressed, right? Whatever it is inside, to be able to express it, to put it into some kind of language, to be able to share it with others, maybe in an art form, drawing, whatever, so that our experience can be shared from that part of us to our inmost self, from parts to parts, from parts to other people so that we can engage our intellect. A lot of times if we can’t put this in a form that we can share it, we can’t really think about it very well. So if it’s not in a form that can be readily communicated, we have trouble communicating that within our own selves. And then if we have that, we can begin to reflect in our experience. 

[00:56:38] Brene Brown says, “Owning our story and loving ourselves through that process is the bravest thing that we’ll ever do.” Owning our story. That means owning not just the words and the narrative themes of the story but the emotions, the desires, the misunderstandings, the misperceptions, all of it, all of it in its incredible untidiness, all of it in its disorganization, all of it in its fragmentation. We need to be able to own that to bring it together. We need to be able to say, “yes, that is going on within me,” instead of trying to play this massive game of whack a mole with all these elements that come up in our story that protector parts can’t tolerate, trying to push them right back down.

[00:57:30] Brene Brown also says that, “One day, you will tell your story of how you overcame what you went through and it will be someone else’s survival guide.” 

[00:57:44] When we talk about parts here, one that comes up is a blinding part. A blinding part whose primary protective function involves preventing you from experiencing any meaningful internal awareness of your feelings and emotions from other parts. Her strategy involves turning your thinking and understanding from an internal focus to an external focus. When she is active, you may find it very difficult or impossible to feel your emotions or express them. She may allow very strong emotions and sensations to be brought into conscious awareness from time to time, but the discreet emotions held by your exhaled parts are kept deeply hidden, making you essentially blind to them. When she is active, when she is blended in your system, her strong defenses make forming and maintaining close relationships very challenging as she directs you away from experiencing intimacy, which she considers too dangerous for you. Your blinding part may significantly complicate your attempts to grow in personal closeness with others who are reaching out to you and who are open to forming attachment relationships with you, real bonds with you. That happens with God too. 

[00:58:59] So there we have the six integrity needs, survival, importance, agency, goodness, mission, and then this final one, which we just discussed, which is authentic expression. So let’s go on to how integrity needs are met for parts. How do we actually meet the needs of parts? Well, first we connect with the part, right? We try to create these conditions of safety, so that we can actually develop a relationship with the part. You know, start with those attachment needs. The first one being that felt sense of safety and protection. And then we move on to recognition, right? Parts being seen, heard, known, and understood in a way that feels safe enough, right? Then we can begin eventually to connect with the part’s need. 

[01:00:00] Parts are phenomenologically very young. They’re like little children. And so, we want to really appreciate that not every part is connected in fully with what we know intellectually. That may be accessible only by some of our manager parts, not by these exiled parts. So what I thought we might do, just to kind of practice some of this, and again, we do so much of this in the Resilient Catholics Community, we do so much of this in the Formation for Formators Community. I want to give you a little taste of the kinds of experiential exercises that we engage in. This is just an exercise to connect with your manager parts.

[01:00:42] We’re not going to be focusing so much on the exiles, not so much on the firefighters, but your manager parts, the parts of you that handle your day to day needs, right? Just going to invite you into a relationship with them and a conversation with them about their integrity needs.

[01:01:02] And again, as always, this is not a clinical service. We’re not doing therapy here. This is an experiential exercise. This is like a guided meditation. This is an invitation for you to encounter your parts. And as always, there’s no pressure. You can stop at any time. If you don’t feel like this is working for you, no problem in stopping this. You’re welcome to also take what’s valuable and take what’s helpful and leave the rest behind. You’re welcome to pause the recording and stay with the theme if you find that you’re really connecting with a part about this. If you’re noticing for some reason, and I don’t expect that this is going to happen, but if you’re noticing that you’re leaving your window of tolerance, that you’re moving into fight or flight mode, getting into that hyper arousal, really revving up, or if you’re dropping into hypo arousal, where you’re just like numbing out. You’re moving into that freeze response. Stop the recording. Get yourself regrounded. You know, it might be good to get curious about that. Talk about it with somebody. Could be a sign that, you know, you might benefit from working with someone else that you trust with this theme, a therapist, a coach, somebody that you think is wise and can be helpful.

[01:02:11] And again, this is something to do when you have the time for it. Like, this isn’t something for like when you’re driving, or if you’re making dinner, or you’re working out. This is something for when you have some quiet time and some quiet space. You can skip over this if you want to catch the rest of it, because there’s a few more things I’m going to do after this, and come back to it when it’s convenient. This will be saved for you for when the time is right. 

[01:02:34] But if this is a good time for you, then I’m just going to invite you to just notice for a moment what’s going on inside. Just kind of check what’s happening in or around your body. Just noticing anything that might stand out in some way, even if it’s a really typical body sensation. You may notice other things going on inside. There might be a song running through your head or an image or a memory. Just noticing whatever is happening inside. Whatever is happening in or around your body or in your psyche as well. I mean, just noticing whatever might be going on.

[01:03:46] And I just want to start by speaking to your managers, the ones that are up right now, the ones that might be blended right now, ones that might be in charge, that I really appreciate your intentions, the efforts to try to keep you safe. And especially In this moment, those efforts toward protecting and preserving your integrity. So often managers catch so much flack, so much criticism. Just want you managers to know that I appreciate your good intentions and all those efforts to try to preserve your integrity, the integrity of the whole you.

[01:05:00] And I’m just going to invite you in your innermost self and other parts that might be with you might be present to see if you can have a big open heart toward these protectors that are prominent right now, these managers. And we’re not going to do anything without your manager’s permission. Managers, you have veto power here. If in this experiential exercise, I offer you something or I make an invitation to something that is not suitable, you don’t think it’s right or good for you, don’t do it. We won’t do it. Don’t do it. I’m serious about that. Because there’s reasons why protectors have concerns. And even if that might be something that applied years ago, but not in this immediate moment, I still do not want to steamroll any managers. 

[01:06:05] Why? Because of integrity. I’m serious about this integrity thing. I really am. I want to work gently, kindly, collaboratively, in a way that’s not at all coercive or forcing anything with parts. That’s so important. And so many times our managers have just been hammered by other managers, by other people’s managers, other people’s parts, firefighters within us, even our exiles.

[01:06:41] So a lot of gentleness, a lot of love to our managers. And if you’re not feeling that, that’s because there’s something there, something going on. Let’s get curious about that. If it’s hard to have a big open heart to managers, there may be reasons for that. There are reasons for that. Sometimes managers use means that are really, really heavy handed, maybe even abusive to ourselves, to others, in various ways. But can we see, can we sense that there’s good intentions that they’re trying to help? And so often what our managers are trying to do is to help us with one of these integrity needs.

[01:07:36] I’m going to read through these six integrity needs and I’m going to invite you to notice if anything shifts in your body or shifts inside your psyche, your mind, your feelings, anything within you for any of these words. And if that’s the case, you might want to note it down or remember it, because we’re going to hit each one of these in this experiential exercise. Survival, importance, agency, goodness, mission, authentic expression. Just noticing which one of those, maybe there was more than one, just brought up something. Parts might be communicating with you about integrity needs. Might be in ways that are surprising. Maybe in ways that are unexpected. That happens a lot.

[01:09:19] Survival. You know, that need to exist, to survive. Just curious if there’s any part that is really focused on survival. And maybe it’s physical survival. Maybe there’s a medical condition, an illness, something that’s chronic. Maybe there’s something that’s terminal that could lead to death. What part is dealing with that if it’s going on? Bodily integrity. Maybe there’s a kind of emotional or psychological survival, relational survival. Maybe there’s memories coming up, or images. Something about room to breathe. Maybe there’s something spiritual around survival. Fears of hell, damnation, fears of being isolated forever. Open to hearing about those? Can we see how parts are making sense of their experience? And maybe that’s in really young ways, really in ways that are not informed by more mature thinking. Because parts, again, very young phenomenologically, often very caught at the time that they took on the burden of survival and survival needs.

[01:11:58] So the second one is importance, that need to matter in the world, to have a place, to have a role in the world. It’s got to go beyond having mass. That you are unique and irreplaceable. I just wonder if there’s any parts that might be struggling with that need. That you have worth that’s independent of anyone else’s opinion of you. Just wonder if there’s any parts that think that you’re forgotten, that you’ve been left out, left behind, disregarded. Parts that may have been carrying the experience of being treated that way by others. How did they make sense of that? Again, remember you can stop the recording if you want more time. 

[01:13:36] Agency. It’s my need for autonomy. To be able to make a difference in the world. To exert influence. To be able to use my will. Not to be a victim of circumstances. You know, little children don’t have a lot of power, often. Sometimes they were overpowered, controlled, dominated. Sometimes, it was communicated that things weren’t safe, they had to be very careful, cautious, overprotected. Is there anything in any of that?

[01:14:52] And then we come to the fourth one, the fourth integrity need, goodness. This is the need to be good in my essence. To be good in my person on the one hand and then also to be morally good on the other hand. That ontological goodness and then also moral goodness. What does that bring up? Parts struggling with shame. Kind of two kinds of shame, you know. One of being rejected and embarrassed by others, the other being worthless, inadequate. Often, we haven’t experienced, in critical relationships, being cherished and treasured. Just have a big open heart to any parts that are struggling with anything around goodness. It’s often a really intense theme for parts of devout Catholics.

[01:16:42] And then mission. This is my need for mission, purpose, a vision to guide my life. The importance of a personal calling, that we’ve been chosen for a path, for a mission. The need for something to live for, something to die for, something to make meaning out of the hardships and sufferings of life. It’s where, you know, a lot of spiritual bypassing can come in. Parts maybe struggling around mission. Just really a big openness to that.

[01:17:51] And then finally the sixth one, authentic expression. It’s my need to share and communicate with others what feels true and real within me, rather than pretend otherwise. To speak from the heart for parts, to be able to share what they really feel, what they really believe without being condemned, judged, corrected, without being told in one way or another that it’s not right to think or feel that way. Parts will conform to reality and to what’s true and good and beautiful when they’re loved. It’s harder for them to do that, much, much harder for them to do that if they’re being condemned and corrected and treated harshly. Often this goes to exiles that have not been able to speak about what they’ve experienced and how they made sense of their experience. Is that an issue for any of your parts? Again, there’s so many opportunities to do this over again, maybe with another part or whatever, but just so that you know that you can take whatever is helpful from here.

[01:19:42] A lot of appreciation for parts creating space for other parts to be heard, for contributing to a sense of safety in hearing something of the story around integrity and integrity needs. We want to do this in a way that respects the integrity of our entire being and in so doing respects every part. And that doesn’t mean that we endorse or embrace parts that may have some distortions. Expect that. I expect that. It doesn’t mean that we have to believe that everything a part felt or every interpretation they made was certain or correct because parts are young. And they’re open to other interpretations if they’re treated with respect, with dignity, and especially with love. Looking for that inner conversion, parts coming together in a much more integrated way. Looking for that interior integration. 

[01:20:57] So a lot of gratitude to your parts, especially your manager parts for maybe stepping out a little bit, maybe taking a risk or feeling like it was a risk. You’re welcome to take some time here, pause it, just kind of finish up some work with your parts. So we draw this experiential exercise to a close, with a lot of gratitude, with a lot of appreciation, open to the graces. And you are welcome to share with us what that was like in the comment section of YouTube for this episode 161. We’d love to hear if it feels right and good for your parts to know how that was, so always looking to connect with folks. If you post something in the comment section about your experience, I will get to it within a week.

[01:22:04] So my key takeaway for today, integrity needs, the needs for survival, importance, agency, goodness, mission, and authentic expression. Those needs are critically important and often forgotten or neglected. I am offering you this recommendation to connect with your parts about their integrity needs as well as their attachment needs.

[01:22:28] Now, every now and then, I want to let you know that I am really open to feedback about anything regarding this podcast or about my reflections or anything else that we generate as content for Souls and Hearts. Especially if there’s anything that seems to violate anything that is the definitive teaching of the Catholic Church. I really want people to reach out to me and correct any errors. What we’re talking about here, in terms of parts and systems thinking and all of these anthropological implications that they bear with them, it’s very speculative, right? So it’s quite possible that we might share something that is not fully in accordance with what we know to be true by faith and morals. And so, it would be an act of Christian charity to fraternally correct me if something like that happens. So I’m really gonna encourage you to think about that and to do it. 

[01:23:26] And when you do that, I’m gonna ask you to, you know, see if you can give me some citation, right? It’s not so helpful if you say, well, I think a priest 20 years ago in a homily said this and it didn’t agree with what you said in episode 152. See if we can get it some other source, like, here we have, you know, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, or the Christian Faith. This is another nice compendium of doctrine and dogma. Or, the classic, right? Denzinger, right? Heinrich Denzinger. Can we find something in here? Or really the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Excellent source for these kinds of things. I want you guys to be thinking in terms of those kinds of things. I’m really open to being corrected

[01:24:09] I mean, I got a correction about a year ago, where I used to talk about parts being separate, but Dr. Peter Martin and I were talking about this, like it’s better to say that within a person, parts are distinct, right? Because if we say separate, it may imply that there’s like a separate little person in there when there’s really not, right? So that was an important correction for me. I really valued that. So I have a deep sense that I’m responsible for everything that I say. And that, you know, every word I’m going to be accountable for, right? Not to a judgmental, harsh God, but out of love for him, I want to make sure that this is as tuned to the truth and to the beauty and the goodness in Catholic teaching as is as humanly possible.

[01:24:54] Alright, so, some announcements. I just decided today that we are going to have little cards printed up with the attachment needs on one side and the integrity needs on the other with brief descriptions, right? So, it’s for handy reference. And these are going to be downloadable, right? We’re going to design a PDF that you could download, print out, cut out, and stuff like that. Those are going to be downloadable. They’ll be in the episode description on YouTube. So, come to our channel, Interior Integration, the number 4. And then Catholics, Interior Integration 4 Catholics, go to episode 161 and there’ll be a link there that you can download a PDF of that handy reference for the attachment needs and the integrity needs because I reference those all the time. And while you’re there on YouTube, give us a like, right? Subscribe, join in the discussion in the YouTube comments. Again, I’ll respond to any comment within a week. I like to keep up to date with my audience. 

[01:25:48] As many of you know, there is the Resilient Catholics Community. We focus on human formation in the Resilient Catholics Community. And we are bringing up the attachment needs and the integrity needs repeatedly. It’s a common recurring theme in the RCC. So if this episode resonated with you, parts and integrity needs, that’s something that I’d encourage you to explore more if it seems right and good to you. We open the community, right now we’re opening it every February, June, and October. So June will be the next one for our 10th cohort coming in. 

[01:26:30] If you are a formator, a therapist, a priest, a spiritual director, a coach, anyone who accompanies others individually, we work with these attachment needs and these integrity needs in the Formation for Formators Community. You can check that out at soulsandhearts.com. The one for the RCC is soulsandhearts.com/rcc. The one for the Formation for Formators Community is at soulsandhearts.com/fff. 

[01:27:00] Our upcoming episode is 162 and I am super excited about this one because it’s titled Your Parts and Your Body. Bridget Adams will be hosting that episode and she will be with Jennifer Maher as co host with Marion Moreland as the expert guest. It’s going to be excellent, and I am so looking forward to seeing it. I’m actually not going to be involved in the production of that at all. I’m taking that one off. And Bridget, Jen, and Marion are going to run with it, and that’s just going to be awesome. There’s so much about the body and parts that we need to know, that we need to understand in this deep-dive into IFS, grounded in a Catholic understanding of the human person that we’re doing here in Interior Integration for Catholics in 2025. So, with that, we will draw this to a close by invoking our Patroness and our Patrons. Our Lady, Our Mother, Untier of Knots, pray for us. St. Joseph, pray for us. Saint John the Baptist, pray for us.