IIC 147: Exodus 90: The Integration of Personal Formation with Dr. Jared Staudt

Dr. Peter: [00:00:00] You have heard of it. Exodus. Exodus exists for men to become uncommonly free. Many of the men who listen may have done Exodus 90, the 90-day program that Exodus offers to help men toward freedom. And I did Exodus 90 several years ago. Really benefited from that. So I am excited that Exodus is the focus of this episode. Jamie Baxter, the founder and CEO of Exodus, describes the issues men face as follows: “It is normal for men to be distracted, addicted, and enslaved by so many things today. Alcohol, pornography, social media, sports, gambling, work, comparison, achievement, wealth, legacy. It is so normal, in fact, that society’s stereotypes of men are often associated with the very idols that plague them. What is uncommon in our time is men who are free. A free man is not a perfect man, but one who remembers who he is, a son of God, whom God has called forth for love. And he knows how much more he can become by the power of grace unfolding in his life over time.” I just like those quotes from Jamie Baxter so much, because they get to that core of identity that we focus on here in this podcast, our identity as beloved little sons and daughters of God. Now tens of thousands of men do Exodus 90 each year. Men in more than 86 countries around the world have made an Exodus, and Exodus 90 materials have been translated into eight languages. But the bigger question here, the important question here for this podcast episode is, how do they do it? How does Exodus, an organization that has worked with hundreds of thousands of men over the last 15 years, how does Exodus think about personal formation? That is what this episode of Interior Integration for Catholics is all about.

Dr. Peter: [00:02:07] Now, I know, I know personally that the staff of Exodus has been deeply interested in the four dimensions of formation, having recently brought on our friend Father Boniface Hicks, who was with us in episodes 136 and 137 of this podcast to discuss his understanding of the integration of the four dimensions of personal formation: the human dimension, the spiritual dimension, the intellectual dimension, and the pastoral dimension. Exodus has brought on Father Boniface to help with that integration of formation, and in this episode, episode 147, titled The Integration of Formation in Exodus with Dr. Jared Staudt, Dr. Gerry Crete caught up with Dr. Staudt for an interview at the National Eucharistic Congress in July 2024. As some of you may know, Dr. Gerry has done some content creation for Exodus. He’s collaborated because Exodus reached out to us at Souls and Hearts to see what we might be able to help with, with formation of their men. Dr. R. Jared Staudt is a Catholic theologian who serves the Catholic Church as a teacher, speaker, writer, and administrator and most importantly for us, he serves as the Director of Content for Exodus 90. Dr. Staudt is responsible for what the men receive in personal formation from the content that Exodus offers. He’s also served in administrative capacities as an academic dean, the director of a Catholic Studies program, and associate superintendent of Catholic schools. He’s developed many programs and initiatives through his work in parishes, schools, higher education, and the apostolate. He writes regularly for numerous publications, including his syndicated column The Catholic Culturist, and he’s authored and edited several books on how to foster authentic Catholic culture. He has also co-founded two Chesterton Academy high schools, so he’s got a wide variety of experiences. And this episode releases on September 2nd, 2024. I’m so pleased to have the two of them, Dr. Gerry and Dr. Staudt, just take this away.

Dr. Gerry: [00:04:02] Well, hey, I’m Dr. Gerry Crete. I’m pleased to be here, and I have the pleasure of being at the Eucharistic Congress with Jared Staudt. And we’re going to talk today about human formation and integration with spiritual formation and so on. So, Jared, so great to have you here.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:04:18] Thanks for having me.

Dr. Gerry: [00:04:19] Yeah. Maybe could you just tell us a little bit about you and your background?

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:04:22] Sure. So I am a theologian, but I’ve had a lot of great experiences teaching for the Augustine Institute, University of Mary. I worked in Catholic schools for the Archdiocese of Denver, and now for a little less than two years have been with Exodus 90, directing their content.

Dr. Gerry: [00:04:36] Oh, wow. That’s great. That’s great. Yeah, I’ve done a bit of writing with Exodus in the last few years and really enjoyed it and have been through the Exodus 90 experience and managed through that somewhat.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:04:49] It’s amazing how transformative it’s been for so many men. And, you know, we talk about men just not having a place in the church often. But to have men banding together in fraternity and doing something challenging, right, because Christianity has become very soft in a lot of ways. Doesn’t expect anything of us. And to say, we’re going to do some challenging things together — take cold showers, fast, you know, give up technology, and most importantly, pray every day. And when you have that prayer, asceticism, fraternity coming together, it’s been life-changing for thousands of men.

Dr. Gerry: [00:05:21] Well, can you say a bit more about asceticism? I mean, I love the Desert Fathers, I go to Byzantine Catholic Church. I fast a fair bit in that process.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:05:31] Yeah. If you go to the Byzantine church, you fast.

Dr. Gerry: [00:05:34] Yeah, you’d think I’d be thinner, but, you know, there it is. Yeah, so is that a hard sell for guys, would you say? And what’s its importance?

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:05:41] Yeah. The thing that is usually difficult for men is the cold showers. So, you know, we’re Exodus 90. We have the 90 days up to Easter where we take a cold shower every day. We offer content every day of the year, and so we don’t take cold showers every day of the entire year. But that Exodus 90, that’s a thing that guys have a hard time with. But I will say, the guys who really embrace it, come to see its power as just, sacrifice. Everything is really connected, right? And a lot of guys come to Exodus because they’re struggling with something. Often it’s pornography, but it could be overeating, could be drinking, or addiction to technology. There’s a lot of different addictions that guys have, and we like to say that it’s never just that one thing, right? And so, you know, even just getting into the cold shower, it’s willpower, it’s sacrifice, and it opens things up. You know, asceticism, you know, is a difficult word. A lot of guys are like, what does that mean? But, you know, askesis, it means training. And it was even something that athletes did in the ancient world, ascetical practices. And people go to the gym today, you know, and they’re willing to make sacrifices for their physique or for their health. But what about the spiritual life? You know, and I think to call men into that kind of sacrifice is powerful. And so asceticism is really disciplining ourselves for the Lord and to give God greater space in our lives and ultimately to love him and to be able to love others more because we’re not clinging to things and looking inward at ourselves.

Dr. Gerry: [00:07:07] Mmhm. No, I love that. I think there’s an element here, right, you were saying there’s a spiritual dimension to that asceticism. And how does that interplay with like the human dimension, like your understanding of human formation? And, you know, what does it look like? Because it sounds a little bit to me when you talk about it being a discipline, that it sounds to me like that’s a human formation element, more than a spiritual. How do the two play together?

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:07:33] You know, it’s interesting. There was a guy who came to me yesterday at our Exodus booth here at the Congress and said, “I really want to lose weight.” And he said, “Can meditation help me to lose weight?” When you look at the three pillars that I pointed out already, you know, prayer, asceticism, fraternity, prayer and fraternity are about others. And the disciplines, we could think, “Well, it’s about me.” But I would say, I mean, if you’re a married man, the disciplines help us to be more available to others. And ultimately, it’s all ordered towards God. And so, you know, when we look at spiritual formation, intellectual formation, human formation, we want them to be integrated. And it’s really the Lord that brings it all together. And so I would say the human elements of discipline that come out in the asceticism are all ordered towards love, drawing us out of ourselves, that we can become more available to others, more giving of others, more present to them. And even, you know, men who are looking to be better husbands and fathers — it’s that availability to God and to his grace, that brings better integration and healing, that then enables us to love others more.

Dr. Gerry: [00:08:49] Yeah. Yeah. You know, when we’re looking at parts work, as we do, you know, at Souls and Hearts, we often see like inner conflicts, right, as in sort of evidence of, you know, different parts of ourselves. And so, like, there’s a part of me that might be like, “Yeah, I want to do Exodus 90. I’m going to do the whole 90 day thing, and then I’m going to keep going, and I’m going be a spiritual warrior kind of thing and do the cold showers and, you know, deny myself some of these things.” And then there’s another part of me that’s like, “I don’t want to do any of that. When I get home, I want to have a beer. I want to watch TV. I want to do nothing. I deserve a break.” Right? How do you see that inner conflict playing out or being resolved, possibly?

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:09:28] Right. You know, I did videos with Father Boniface Hicks for Exodus 90 this last year, and he’s going to come back again this year. And, you know, guys would ask us questions. They would literally submit questions every week. And we’d go through them and the guys would say, “I just don’t know how I can keep doing this.” And he would say, “You know, this is only 90 days. You can do this for 90 days. Yeah, there’s a part of you that does just, you know, want to sit on the couch and turn the TV on and drink a beer. But you know what? The beer and the couch and the TV are going to be there when Easter comes.” And it’s amazing what you will see if you embrace this daily prayer, these disciplines. You rely on your brothers in fraternity, you know, because we do these things all the time. But to kind of pause that and to say, “I’m going to do something different, I’m going to open myself in a new way.” I mean, there was a guy I talked to yesterday who was in tears, at the Exodus booth, just saying, “I can’t even believe how much this has changed my life.” And sitting on the couch drinking a beer is probably not going to change your life. But, you know, really leaning into these disciplines really has the potential to.

Dr. Gerry: [00:10:40] Yeah, yeah. You know, I remember years ago, many years ago now, I stopped drinking like soft drinks for a period of time. And then I had a Coke like, after like six months of this. And I was like, awful. I was like, “Wow, why did I like this?” You know, and I wondered — I’ve come back to liking Coke. So it wasn’t a permanent change. But for a while I actually just sort of lost the taste for it. And I wonder if it’s the same thing. Like we are distracting ourselves with so many things and we’re not even thinking about whether it’s good for me, whether I’m actually enjoying it, especially if it’s an addictive thing. We stop enjoying it after time. And then maybe 90 days gives people enough time to kind of detox, if you will. And then be able to say, “Hey, do I want to bring these things back? Like some of them, I may not want to after that time period.”

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:11:31] Well, you know, I had a similar experience, wasn’t with Coke, but it was with beer. And this is a big deal for me. My first major book was called The Beer Option: Brewing a Catholic Culture Yesterday and Today. And, you know, I would come home and it was just a way of kind of de-stressing. I’d have a beer. Not two beers, not three beers, just a beer. And I began to see that, you know, I wasn’t able to write in the evening. I was getting short with my kids and that, you know, I was kind of hitting a wall even in the spiritual life. And there were some, you know, particular difficulties that I was facing. And then actually the next morning, I was waking up with a headache just after, you know, just moderate drinking. And I felt like the Lord lifted something off of my eyes, and he let me see all that, you know, because sometimes we just don’t realize, like you said, we’re kind of in it. You’re like, “Well, yeah, I just have a beer. That’s what I do. It’s part of, like, my coming home from work ritual, almost. You know, something that I enjoy and helps me to relax.”

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:12:33] But it’s like the scale came off my eyes and I saw all those things that I mentioned, and I felt the Lord saying, “I want you to give that up. I want you to make a sacrifice of it.” And when I did, I felt like it just opened up a lot of grace in my life. And I think that is what happens to men during Exodus 90. It’s like a lot of these things that they don’t even realize are weighing them down, just comes off of them. And it opens up grace and change in their lives. And I’ve heard guys say, “You know what, I’m going to take a warm shower, but I’m not going back to video games.” Or something like that. Or are there other guys who said, “I’m going to take a cold shower the rest of my life.” You know, and they said, “Because it’s just, you know, really is something powerful in my life now.”

Dr. Gerry: [00:13:17] Yeah, yeah. And I wonder, you know, getting back to, like, that part of me, let’s just say, that wants to have that beer or watch TV or be on the couch. And I’m wondering to myself, like, that part wants something. And maybe deep down, the intention is good. Like, it needs some relaxation or recreation. That in itself is good. But to slow it down and say, “Okay, but can we do this in a different way?” Because maybe, you know, engaging in something, it might still be recreational, but that’s healthier, would actually meet that need. But we’re so caught in a rut of doing the same kind of stuff that we do every day, that maybe a program like yours is really helpful to kind of get you out of that rut and start realizing, “No, I can get up in the morning and enjoy a beautiful day, rather than being hung over and tired and all this kind of thing.”

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:14:06] Yeah. And we say, it’s not negative. It’s not like you’re giving up all these things. It’s like, well, now you have time to do this. You can be more present to your family. You can focus on being a dad. And so, yeah, rather than coming home and drinking a beer after work, throw the football with your boys, or something like that. And you know, like I said, I saw a lot of graces with giving up alcohol. But, you know, even just in prayer, I felt more present to God, felt more present to everybody. And once again, I didn’t realize how moderate drinking was, just kind of lowering, you know, my mental and spiritual capacities. And, you know, for other guys, it’s not like that. You know, it might be something else, but I think you’re right that Exodus 90 gives us a possibility of discerning what is, you know, weighing us down.

Dr. Gerry: [00:14:50] Right. And as I understand it, after the 90 days, there’s a lot of programs, ongoing. Do you want to say more about that?

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:14:56] Right. So all year long we’re in different seasons. So we move from Exodus 90, which is focused on asceticism, into actually a period of celebration in Easter. And then in summer, we’re really working on maintaining, because summer is a time we go on vacation and we get distracted and maybe kind of let down, you know, prayer and other things. So our focus in the summer is just kind of, you know, keeping a baseline of that. But we do have Saint Michael’s Lent coming up starting August 15th, which is a time of spiritual warfare. And we are actually really focused on healing this year, because we’re reading the Book of Tobit. And I’m actually writing even a fictional series of an Exodus man who has a really profound experience of healing in his life and his relationships. But it was through his fraternity and spiritual direction that’s helping him to kind of see that. Something that he’s really been, you know, burying a lot of emotions, his relationship with his dad. And so that’s just to help guys to kind of imagine, “Okay, if I’m doing Exodus, but Saint Michael’s Lent in particular, how can I then apply that to my own need for healing and transformation? So we’ve done this a few times now this year. During Exodus 90 was, “Teach me to pray,” of an Exodus man going for spiritual direction with prayer. And then we did a retreat focused on the Passion and then building a plan of life during Easter. But now, it’s this series on healing for Saint Michael’s Lent. So it’s been a great kind of additional offering through the app.

Dr. Gerry: [00:16:19] Oh, that’s fantastic. Would you say that component of fraternity is central? Because to me, a lot of guys live very isolated lives, even if they know people around them, they’re not actually connected. At least, that’s my experience. And here you are, you have a program that is keeping guys together in this program. I don’t know if you want to say anything about that importance. 

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:16:39] Yeah, absolutely. I like to say there’s two major problems in the world right now. One is secularism, that we keep God apart from the rest of our lives. Like, I go to church, but that doesn’t translate into my life. But individualism is the other. And we actually see it as a virtue. You know, I want to be self-sufficient. I can do it on my own. You can’t do the spiritual life on your own. It doesn’t work that way. You know, we are meant to be part of a group of disciples like the Twelve, and our Exodus fraternity is our way of, I think, really entering into the spiritual life, relying on other men, but being part of something bigger than ourselves into the mission, just like the Twelve were sent. So there was a guy who asked me at the Congress here, “Can I do this myself? I’m kind of introverted. Can I just read the reflections on the app?” I said, “Well, you can, but you will not see the fruit.” Because really being vulnerable with others, opening ourselves up. And it’s not just that. It’s being there for them. Because that does pull us out of ourselves. These guys need me, I need them. We are really helping each other to embrace these disciplines, to stay consistent in prayer and to grow in friendship with one another. Friendship is essential in the virtuous life and in the spiritual life.

Dr. Gerry: [00:17:51] So how do you get guys, if you will, I don’t know if you “get them to” but, you know, encourage like vulnerability and actually sharing and going a little deeper. Years ago, I’ve been in different men’s groups where sometimes it was difficult and I could see, you know, guys just sort of wanting to go through the program, but not actually opening up in a deep way. And I’ve seen other groups where guys really do, you know, I’ve run groups for men with sex addictions and stuff like that, and once they open up and share their stories, man, they bond. But that’s sometimes such a hard bridge to get guys into a place where they’re actually vulnerable. You know, does a program kind of speak to that or help them with that?

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:18:31] Well, I would say, you know, we do give fraternity guides on a weekly basis and we want to give, you know, questions to discuss, but that can become, you know, like boxes to check. And I would say we’re trying to create a deeper bond even through our action items. Sometimes it’s, make a holy hour as a fraternity. Go for a hike, you know. Or if it’s Easter, celebrate, you know, with a meal and a toast, you know, for the season. I think it’s those extra elements where, you know, we start to share life with one another, you know, beyond simply checking in, you know, or checking the boxes. It really does have to be something more. But I think it’s something that we can continue to explore and build upon, because I think we can maybe do a better job helping guys to be vulnerable. And so that’s probably something we’re going to continue to strengthen in Exodus.

Dr. Gerry: [00:19:23] Yeah. Well, it’s great. It’s also a hard sell sometimes, right, to be able to say, “Hey, you know, you’ve got to be more emotional.” Well, what does that mean? Does that mean sentimental or crying all the time? You know, that sounds like weak or something like that. No, we’re not talking about just being emotional, but it’s about being authentic. It’s about maybe speaking from your heart, which might mean you need to identify an emotion now and then.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:19:46] I’m struggling with this, right. Or this is a victory that I’ve experienced. Or how have you guys responded to this? What do you do in your holy hour? I mean, it really is, you know, sharing our experiences and being there for one another.

Dr. Gerry: [00:20:00] Yeah. Okay. No, I love it that you’re hitting those notes, because it seems to me like so much of what you’re talking about is human formation, setting some groundwork. Yes prayer, of course. And that’s directed to God and spiritual. But with the fraternity and with the asceticism, it’s almost like creating a space internally in order for God possibly to work more and more in their lives. And so to me, it feels like your program is geared toward helping men have a better human formation by removing some distractions and removing some things that can open up the space for the spiritual. Is that a good way to describe it?

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:20:38] To get life in order. I mean, a lot of us, we say, “Okay, I want to live different,” as we say in Exodus, you know, differently, but we want to live different. You know, we want to live for God. It’s easy to say those things, but then what? And you go to your parish and you show up like, “What can I do?” Well, you can be an usher, you can join the Knights of Columbus. And, you know, but if guys aren’t drawn to that, well, what do I do? And we want to help guys to learn how to pray, to get their lives in order. This is the human formation, you know, to experience deeper intimacy with God, healing, and to see that that’s not going to happen alone, as we’ve been saying. But it’s going to happen because you are there with other men. You’re actually building community. Our parishes sometimes are too large for community just to happen spontaneously. It’s like we need to open up ways to build community within the parish. And I think Exodus is a great way of doing that. You know, we’re looking at 5 to 7 guys. If you start getting, you know, ten guys, 15 guys, 20 guys, you want to really break that up, because it’s hard to share your life with too many men at once, right? We want to build those relationships. And a lot of times there’s, you know, guys leaving and coming into the fraternities and that’s good, that’s healthy. And we want to continue to grow. But at a certain point we want to split it off. So I mean, easily a parish could have multiple Exodus fraternities at once. And that’s a good thing.

Dr. Gerry: [00:22:00] That’s great. That’s great. Yeah. When I did it, it was with a group of guys, and I think most of us were in different parishes, as it turned out.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:22:07] And that’s totally fine too. And you can actually use the app to find other guys in your area. We actually have that capability now. So you put in your zip code, and you can even build a fraternity right through the app and identify guys who are within a certain distance of you.

Dr. Gerry: [00:22:22] Nice, nice. I love it, I love it. Well, I think that’s great, and I’m excited to hear that you’re going to have a focus on healing coming up. And, you know, my book and a lot of the work I do as a trauma therapist is on healing. And I’m curious what kind of approaches you guys might be taking when it comes to like, opening up that. That’s a pretty big topic. You might open up wounds, open up situations like that.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:22:45] Well, we are doing it through the Book of Tobit. And so we’re really looking at the relationship of father and son with Tobit and Tobias. We are looking at the way that the devil exploits us, you know, where Tobias has actually been attacked by this giant fish, you know, the Leviathan, you know, which is one of the forms of the devil takes. And what is he doing there? He’s trying to even prevent Sarah, Tobias’ bride, from entering into a fruitful union. And so a lot of it is relationship-based. And that’s what I’m really exploring. And also the series that I’m writing to go along with our daily reflections called Heal Me, I’m Broken. And it’s actually the main character, Rob, who I’ve been tracing throughout the year with prayer series and the Build a Plan of Life series. Now he draws his next door neighbor into his fraternity, and he’s a combat veteran. And so he’s talking about the healing that he had to go through coming back from Iraq. And, you know, Rob is then looking at, you know, his own life and he thinks he doesn’t need healing like so many of us. And so really, it’s opening up some broken relationships in his life that he’s tried to bury, and looking at healing that he’s seeing around him. And, you know, how this comes out in his fraternity. So it’s really a beautiful thing. And just like the Book of Tobit, it then ultimately comes back to his own marriage, where he’s able to deal with his own past and then to be able to give himself a little bit more to his own wife.

Dr. Gerry: [00:24:13] Wow. I love it, I love it that you’re doing that. I mean, I think that’s fantastic. I like how you put that, you know, he had to realize, like you’re putting a character in there, having to realize, “No, I do need to go further. I need to look at this.” I think, you know, for so many men, they’re just in complete denial about those things. Or they think that, “Oh, yeah, whatever is in the past, the only way is to just like, get over it, just keep moving forward.” And they don’t want to look. They don’t even understand why one would need to open it up. And it’s not to open it up to wallow in some kind of past pain or to stay a victim. At least not the way I would look at it. And it’s more about how do you heal, and that we can’t leave our wounds to fester and be ignorant about that. But yet, I think men are kind of trained to just move forward and not do that. So I love it.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:25:01] And I would say the goal is that there’s so much more. You know, God wants us to have life to the full, to have it in abundance, as Jesus says in John 10. And if we, you know, allow those relationships to just remain broken or to allow things to remain buried, we can’t enter more fully into what God wants for us, the greater love that he’s really calling us to.

Dr. Gerry: [00:25:26] Well, his own wounds, right? They’re transformative. And so that’s what our wounds, I believe anyway, our wounds, as horrible as they may be, you know, and this and that, they actually have the capacity to transform us and bring meaning, which is the great paradox and amazing beauty of it all. But I think we’re having to wrap up in a moment. But man, Jared, I really enjoyed talking with you, and I love everything I’m hearing, you know, what’s going on in Exodus. It’s so exciting.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:25:50] Well, I hope we can continue the conversation. I would really love to have you to write again for Exodus, but maybe we can even get you onto our video series that we do.

Dr. Gerry: [00:25:59] Love that, I love that. All right. Thank you so much.

Dr. Jared Staudt: [00:26:02] Thank you.

Dr. Peter: [00:26:03] And thank you, Dr. Staudt. Thank you, Dr. Gerry, for such a great discussion with us. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel Interior Integration for Catholics and like this episode if you are into it. We’ve got resources below for you in the comment section on YouTube. You can learn more about Exodus at exodus90.com. And I’m going to invite you to check out all the episodes in this series on the integration of the four dimensions of personal formation, starting with episode 133, and we are up to 14 or 15 in the series now. Now, if you are a Catholic and you know you need some help on this, we’re bringing you the different organizations that can help. Exodus 90 is one of them. We talked about Catholic Story Groups. You know, we talked about with Dr. Sri, FOCUS, right. We talked about all kinds of organizations in these series. But if you are particularly interested in a structured program that focuses on your parts, the focus is on your internal system, if you want to do this in a community of like-minded Catholics that want to do parts and systems work grounded in an authentic Catholic understanding of the human person — we’ve got something for you at Souls and Hearts too. If you want to journey together toward loving God wholeheartedly with all your parts, then check out the Resilient Catholics Community. You can do an internet search. You can go to our landing page at soulsandhearts.com/rcc.

Dr. Peter: [00:27:24] We are reopening in less than a month. October 1st. We’re in the countdown right now. We’ve got many more than 100 that have already indicated their interest. We’re starting to get in touch with those folks. We’re accepting applications again on October 1st, 2024. We’ll keep going for a month with that. So super excited. If you’d like to join us, you can also reach out to me at crisis@soulsandhearts.com. Or you could reach out to me on my cell phone (317) 567-9594. That is especially during the conversation hours I host every Tuesday and Thursday from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. Eastern Time. (317) 567-9594. You can ask me directly about the Resilient Catholics Community or about anything that we offer, you know, the podcast or the semi-monthly reflections or anything that we offer, the free courses, anything we offer at Souls and Hearts. And with that, let’s go ahead and invoke our patroness and our patrons, asking them to pray for us, because this whole enterprise is fueled by prayer. So I also ask you, you to pray for us. Everything we do is fueled by prayer. If we get away from that, we’re going to lose our way. And so we’re very, very committed to grounding all of this in prayer. Our Lady, our Mother, Untier of Knots, pray for us. Saint Joseph, pray for us. Saint John the Baptist, pray for us.

Special thanks to the Human Formation Coalition, who provided the support to make this transcript available.