IIC 162: Your Body and Your Parts

[00:00:00] Bridget Adams: “One thing I often hear from people new to IFS is that they don’t know how to do it, or if they can do it, communicate with their parts, that is. In my experience, this often comes from people who, always for good reasons, are not in balanced contact with their bodies and physical sensations.” From an article called Parts and the Body in IFS Therapy, posted May 15th, 2022 on IFS and Family Therapist Anna Vincenz’s blog. She goes on, “Truth is, you can’t really do it wrong. We start exactly where you are, and if the part of you that feels you’re just making it up is most present, then we start there. If the part of you that feels shame about talking to yourself is most present, then we start there. If your therapist asks you if or how you notice a part in your body, and you either don’t notice it in your body at all, it might be a thought, a voice, a feeling, an image, or a body sensation, or it may be a combination, or you notice that you think the body instead of feeling the body, that is absolutely fine, and an excellent observation.”

[00:01:39] Bridget Adams: This deep dive in 2025 of IFS Catholic style is number six in the series, whether you’re a longtime follower of this Interior Integration for Catholics podcast, or if you’re here for the first time or new to the language of internal family systems, you might be wondering, so I have parts and different parts of me have different roles and there’s an innermost self and some of my parts might not want me to learn about other parts of me. And my body may have a role to play in helping me understand my parts. And my parts are all welcome and have good intentions despite some disordered patterns. Maybe you’re not sure what to make of this IFS language and how to integrate IFS with your felt sense and intellectual understanding of being fully human. Well, today we’re going to take a closer look at what it means to be fully present in the body and in the mind. Maybe you’ve only known one or the other, or one with just a glimpse of the other. And we’re bringing in a sense of hope that we can be integrated in a way that our bodies and our minds and our parts are cooperating and not at war with one another, or highly invested in avoiding or hiding the other. So glad you’re with us today as we discuss and address parts and the body in today’s episode number 162 of the Interior Integration for Catholics podcast.

[00:03:45] Bridget Adams: Hello, I’m Bridget Adams and I’m honored to be your host and guide in this Interior Integration for Catholics podcast episode number 162, and I’m so glad to be with you. I’m an IFS trained Catholic coach on staff at Souls and Hearts, member coordinator for the Resilient Catholics community, a lead writer and trainer on our PartsFighter Pro team, an FEG facilitator and content creator for the advanced RCC Cohort, a wife, a mother, a grandmother, a daughter. But most of all, a beloved little daughter of God, a devout Catholic who wants to help you taste and see the height and depth and breadth and warmth and the light and love of God, especially God, your father, and also Mary, your mother, your spiritual parents, your and my primary parents. I’m here to help you embrace your identity as a beloved little child of God and Mary and to find new and better ways to love your neighbor as yourself, to know yourself, to love yourself in an ordered way, and to let that love leak all over your life for the glory of God. 

[00:05:03] Bridget Adams: A warm welcome to episode number 162. This will release on St. Patrick’s Day, March 17th, 2025. Our expert guest today is Marion Moreland, the lead navigator of the Resilient Catholics community. Her full intro can be found on the first episode of this series, episode number 157. But a little refresher, Marion holds a Bachelor of Science in Sports and Health Sciences and a Master of Science in Clinical Counseling. A lifelong dancer from age 12, Marion has also navigated chronic pain and joint weakness throughout her life. It was during a period of intermittent somatic pain, which at times left her unable to walk, when reading the Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, M. D., helped her make sense of her experience. A profound healing through the EMDR flash model deepened her understanding of how trauma is stored in the body and ignited her passion for somatic healing. Her trauma training led her to explore the body’s role in healing, and when she encountered internal family systems with a trainer who integrated somatic work, everything clicked. This journey continued with a somatic IFS retreat in Ireland with Susan McConnell, further solidifying her commitment to this path. Marion is now deepening her expertise by pursuing the next level of somatic IFS training in this spring 2025. So welcome, Marion.

[00:06:51] Marion Moreland: Thank you, Bridget. You’re saying everything clicked. I was thinking, glad that’s not my joints now, but that’s good. Yeah, we’re good. 

[00:06:59] Bridget Adams: Everything clicked in a good way. And now I’d like to introduce a first time guest on the IIC podcast and my co host today, Jennifer Maher, Marion’s close friend and fellow clinician. Jennifer Maher is a licensed professional therapist and certified traumatologist. With over 18 years of experience integrating the Catholic faith and psychotherapy, as the founder of Integrated Hearts Counseling and Consultation, Jennifer provides compassionate support to individuals, couples, and young adults, guiding them through life’s challenges with an emphasis on healing and growth. She has taught theology of the body for nearly two decades and has facilitated marriage preparation programs for engaged couples in the diocese of Metuchen and Trenton. Passionate about trauma informed therapy, Jennifer is dedicated to helping others build healthy boundaries and cultivate authentic, meaningful relationships. Welcome, Jennifer. I’m so glad you’re here.

[00:08:10] Jennifer Maher: Thank you so much. Did you say 18 years as a psychotherapist? 

[00:08:17] Bridget Adams: That’s what it says in your bio. 

[00:08:19] Jennifer Maher: I think I had a part that was like, no, let’s make it more than it is. Yeah, it’s about, how long have we been doing this, Marion? Six years? Five years? 

[00:08:28] Marion Moreland: Yeah, I think I’m approaching the six year mark, so, yeah. 

[00:08:34] Bridget Adams: It’s so good to be together and to be this team here for this episode. I wanted to begin with just another short quote from that article from Anna Vincenz’s blog. “Therapy and healing is not about trying to make anything happen, but being with exactly what is at that given moment. And when we are able to start where we are, we can take those tiny little steps. Remember, slow is fast, especially in therapy and healing. And every little step you take creates new neural pathways in your whole body, not just the brain. And like a muscle exercised, your awareness of yourself and your parts becomes stronger, more integrated, and fluent.”

[00:09:29] Bridget Adams: And she goes on, “In Susan McConnell’s wonderful book, Somatic Internal Family Systems, she dives into many important areas of knowing and working with the body and our parts in the body. And as she says it beautifully, ‘awareness of the body creates awareness in the body.’ Thinking is for many of us the first step to body awareness and for others where the awareness is there, but in a chaotic and unstructured way, we start slowly making sense of what is and create the neural pathways that slowly, slowly balances and heals the inner system.” And Marion, I’ll just ask you, how does that land or what kind of jumps out at you from that?

[00:10:27] Marion Moreland: Yeah. Very simply, the phrase being with. So often our focus is, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? How do I fix this? How do I stop this pain? How do I get in better shape or get rid of my anxiety? All those sorts of things. But it’s not until we can actually learn to be with the parts of us that are messy, the parts of us that hurt, that bring pain, that have suffered and really be present in a genuine, authentic way that we can actually start to do the work. 

[00:11:18] Bridget Adams: Jen, how about you? What comes up from that?

[00:11:21] Jennifer Maher: I love what Marion said, though. Personally, when I listened to that, because I listened to her book over the weekend, that phrase stuck out to me because I know personally, for my system, it is very protective. And I’m reminded of those parts that I’m constantly, well, not constantly, but I feel tenderly towards with regards to connecting the body to emotions. And as a traumatologist, we always go there, trying to connect the emotions with the body, with the feelings. And that’s one of the first things that our defenses kind of cuts us off from. So it just really resonated with me personally, with what I’ve seen, and I love how Marion put it beautifully. We’re constantly thinking about doing, doing, and it’s not until we sit and think about being with ourselves and loving ourselves that we really can start to do the work.

[00:12:36] Bridget Adams: And Marion, if I remember correctly, you had a very particular experience that led you into this. We mentioned it a little in the bio, but would you like to just maybe share that? 

[00:12:48] Marion Moreland: Yeah. Kind of a series of events that happened. We did mention I have danced my entire life, in one way or another. Started off square dancing and then into ballroom and West Coast swing. And yet, and all along I’ve had this body that has been challenging to work with. This was all before I knew parts. So quite frankly, it made me very angry and annoyed, because it didn’t do what I wanted it to do. But I had gotten to a place where my managers had managed to take control of my body and externally, it looked like things were going good, and that’s when I went in and decided to pursue my bachelor’s degree in sports and health science, which is a really big shift when you’re formerly an accountant, for the record, and an even bigger one when you have no idea about all the big sports that people play. Like I know there was a game over the weekend that people seemed to be really excited about, but I couldn’t tell you who was playing. So suddenly I find myself in a program with a bunch of coaches, and I’m trying to explain to them how us dancers work harder with our muscles than their athletes, and I was right, we use more muscles. Anyway, in the course of completing that program, I was in a car accident, and, to say that it was life changing was, yeah, it feels like an understatement.

[00:14:18] Marion Moreland: It wasn’t one of those like super serious, like you’re in the hospital forever or anything like that. But there was a year of pain that would not go away. And ended up, you know, knee surgery, hip replacement way too early, all that sort of stuff. But after all was said and done, I still had this pain in my right thigh. And any time something would come up around the accident, I would be taking the palm of my hand and massaging that area. When that pain got to his extreme level, I couldn’t walk. Like, it was physically someone stabbing me with a knife, and it wouldn’t go away. So there were periods of weeks where I was in a wheelchair. So very big things. MRI’s, back, knee, hip, thigh, none of that’s the problem, but no answers, right? And I had a period where it subsided, which is when I went back into grad school and had some waves where I could manage it. But right actually before we graduated grad school, I got to do the second part of my EMDR training, and I remember very vividly being with Dr. Locke and Dr. Keys. There’s something there. And they’re teaching this flash technique, which is the weirdest technique you could imagine. It’s like, close your eyes, blink, have a happy memory, sort of thing, which my analytical parts said, this is stupid. But, I was like, okay, fine. So I said to my friend who was the one that I was practicing with, I’m like, I’m gonna do the car accident. She’s like, that’s not benign. And I said, well, I can’t make it worse. As I’m talking about this, like I’m massaging that part on my leg and I’m feeling the pain increase and we do this little technique and it went away. And this was from, the accident was in 2012. This class was in 2019. So I dealt with it off and on for 7 years. It went away. And I was like, okay, how long is it going to be before it comes back?

[00:16:48] Marion Moreland: Well, that was 2019 and it’s still not back. So something happened, like some part of that trauma, which where it was at in my leg was like between the knee and the hip that were injured. So, you know, initially it was like, is there a stress fracture or something, that we’re not seeing, but no, none of that. But this silly little thing did it. And, I had figured out beforehand that, it was probably a somatic pain, but that kind of makes it worse because it’s kind of like, well, it’s all in your head. Congratulations. You’re crazy or whatever. And then to have this silly little technique make it go away, was just very bizarre.

[00:17:34] Marion Moreland: And so that coupled with all of the other stuff that had been leading me up to working with bodies and how we hold on to trauma and just kind of put everything together so that when I started learning IFS, and COVID was hitting the world and shutting everything down, it was like, there’s a lot to this. And eventually, found Susan’s retreat and did some work there and have continued training and I’m just, I’m amazed, like that silly little flash technique, how quickly things can shift for people with very little. Like, we don’t have to do much. We have to be with the parts of us that are carrying what they’re carrying. So, yeah, that was kind of a long story, but it kind of gives you it in a nutshell.

[00:18:41] Bridget Adams: Thank you, Marion. And Jen, as we’re here being with Marion as she shares her story, do you have a sense of how you came to this? 

[00:18:53] Jennifer Maher: I’m still running away from this somatic work! Yeah, I am known to be a slow mover in the world of internal family systems. I just got used to admitting that I have parts and that they’re protective and that I love them, and feeling the freedom of experiencing self. I can say that I purposefully avoid anything that has to do with connecting with the body. When Marion told me about the retreat, there was definitely a part of me that was like, good for you. I’m so glad I’m not going, because the idea of experiencing that connection is still so very uncomfortable for my part. And I love being able to say that because that’s a real thing for me. But I love the story. I love how she was able to have that connection internally, but there are parts of me that are like, yeah, Jennifer, don’t even think about it. We’re not going to go there yet. 

[00:20:18] Bridget Adams: Thank you for your honesty. There’s a quote from Bessel Van Der Kolk’s The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, Body, and the Healing of Trauma which really speaks to what you just said. And it says, and I’m not to assume that you’re a traumatized person, but it does start with the quote, it says, “Traumatized people chronically feel unsafe inside their bodies. The past is alive in the form of gnawing interior discomfort. Their bodies are constantly bombarded by visceral warning signs. And, in an attempt to control these processes, they often become expert at ignoring their gut feelings and in numbing awareness of what is laid out inside. They can learn to hide from their selves.” And that’s from page 97. 

[00:21:09] Jennifer Maher: Yeah, that definitely does resonate with me. I am a survivor of trauma. And, although I’ve done a lot of work, I can say that body work is probably the most frightening work. It definitely is next level work. So, I’m so happy that Marion is able to embrace all of those parts of her, and I still have a skeptical part. 

[00:21:36] Marion Moreland: You’re making a supposition there, Jen. 

[00:21:41] Jennifer Maher: Yeah, I also have skeptical parts too, about does that really work? Is that real? Was it real to begin with? My skeptical parts that didn’t believe that I had parts. I remember being in Peter’s group and saying, I don’t have any parts, and him laughing at me, because it resonated. But I know that it’s true, because my parts worked so hard to protect me from those feelings. And I can appreciate where my system is at this point, and love it where it is, but still appreciate the work that others do. And hopefully the work that I will eventually at least try, I wanna be able to try to do it. So I’m looking forward to that. 

[00:22:33] Marion Moreland: Yeah. You know, Jen, there is a supposition there. Like, I gave you a story that led me to this point. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t like a whole lot of other parts of me that need some attention and are even resistant to wanting to do the work. 

[00:22:51] Jennifer Maher: Yeah. 

[00:22:52] Marion Moreland: Because at some point we just become comfortable with being uncomfortable. And then it’s like, well, okay, if I don’t have this, who am I? Right? And that’s not always an easy question to answer. I’m appreciating the parts of you that were willing to give you space to be able to show up on an episode where we are talking the body and be able to say, this is hard. Because you are not the only one feeling that. Like it was crazy the first day I walked into the somatic IFS retreat in Ireland. I went because it was Ireland, like, I went because I didn’t think I’d get in. And then I found myself going to Ireland. But I walk in, and there’s like these yoga chairs, we used them in Japan when I lived there, where you sit on the floor, and there’s bolsters, and there’s pillows. And there’s a blanket, which is a good sign, right? But I’m like, are you kidding me? I am going to be sitting on the floor all week? And my parts were like, you’ve got, no, this isn’t going to happen. I get it, and I will say that, in that retreat, the way it’s structured, you spend the morning in a big group, which is 30 people plus the program assistants. And then in the afternoon in the smaller group, which I think was six of us, including a program assistant, it was the last day before I was willing to really get in to do some work in a group setting.

[00:24:33] Marion Moreland: There was stuff going on internally, but it took me quite a while to get to that point. And I’m still figuring it out. I think this is one of those places that we as a society, we’ve put so many things out there that shame us around bodies. Even as a faith, you’ve been teaching theology of the body, like how many people are like totally comfortable, right? And we have all this shame going and we just kind of keep locking it away. And where’s it getting locked away? But in that body that we’re ashamed of. And you hear these messages like you’ve got to love . Well, okay, well, I can love myself, but can I hate my body? And it isn’t as straightforward, because it’s such a shift in our way of seeing ourselves. Yeah, so there’s one thing, there’s like our trauma, there’s the stuff we got passed on from our family, and then there’s all the cultural and societal things about how women should look, or not look, or men should be or not be, and it’s just messy, and then I add on top of it the fact that, oh, I have a weird pain, and, you know, she’s just seeking attention or whatever, all those things. So yeah. 

[00:26:03] Jennifer Maher: Yeah. What you said reminded me of when I give a talk for Theology of the Body, and I’m introducing this idea that we can actually discover who God is and how he loves in and through our nakedness. And how that is so strange, right? Because no one of us, I mean, I don’t stand in front of the mirror naked and say, Oh God, there you are. Whoa. Normally it’s like, wow, gravity’s really winning. And I have to figure something out. We’re never looking at our body and seeing something that is very good. So I feel like even listening to you, I’m starting to put together how this is really mind, body, spirit, intricative in a real way. That we are good. Our bodies are good. And they reflect God’s love, and that’s how we share love. And if we’re not connected to our bodies and if we don’t love our bodies, how in fact, are we going to be able to love others the way in which we’re called? So, I feel like that was a Holy Spirit moment. 

[00:27:16] Marion Moreland: Yeah.

[00:27:17] Bridget Adams: It reminds me of an experiential exercise that was put out by Dr. Peter. I think it was in one of the weekly resources and it was a mirror exercise and it involved standing in front of the mirror, if you could, a full length mirror, and then listening to these prompts. And I remember when it came out, I’ve been doing experiential exercises as a member of the Resilient Catholics Community, but that one, my parts were like not doing it.

[00:27:47] Bridget Adams: And what I realize now is looking in the mirror can be one of those places where parts become very easy to recognize, if you’re listening or if you’re willing to entertain the idea that you have parts. And so what might that sound like, as you just think about that for a minute, looking in the mirror. And it might depend on the day, right? Or how many hours of sleep you got. But for sure, that could be a place where parts are, you can hear them or feel them. 

[00:28:20] Marion Moreland: Yeah. Yeah, I would say not even, could be, but is. I think we’re hard pressed, even for people who have a deep love of their body, sometimes it’s like, oh, I’ve got these muscles. I look good, right? And there’s that part, that’s judging this is good, this is bad. But when you were saying, Jen, about bodies being good, I think that has what has been such a marvel for me. Like our bodies are wonderfully made. What starts off as a clump of cells, and then becomes this organism that can move and breathe and has resilience, right? And it wants to heal. I think that’s such a key factor. I say this when I’m doing like regular trauma work. Your brain wants to heal, your body wants to heal. Yes, there are things that get in the way of that, we call those parts, we call those trauma, right, and they can get in the way, but if we can help those parts that get locked and the burdens they carry to release, we can have a very different relationship with our body.

[00:29:42] Bridget Adams: And that brings to mind another great quote from the book that helped you so much, Marion, The Body Keeps the Score. He said, “Neuroscience research shows that the only way we can change the way we feel is by becoming aware of our inner experience and learning to befriend what is going on inside ourselves.” Aware of our inner experience. It’s a big ask. 

[00:30:12] Marion Moreland: It is, and it’s not just our inner experience. It can be our parents’ inner experiences. That place of stepping into, what was my mom’s pregnancy like with me? What was going on in her life because, you know, we’re taught, as therapists, we learned to do EMDR, they say, Well, you don’t do EMDR to process trauma when a woman’s pregnant, because that processing can cross into the baby’s, you know, neurosystem. Well, gosh, if that’s true, that means everyday life crosses into the baby’s neuro system, right? And so if mom’s always anxious, what do you think is going to happen to the baby? Or when someone’s a post abortive baby, all those sorts of things can play into, our reality, and we know that like genetics get passed down. There’s this whole study of epigenetics. So then I get to learn that what my grandparents did can have an effect on flipping switches in my genes, which is about as much as you’re going to get out of me on epigenetics. It looks interesting. It looks really interesting. I’m not sure my bandwidth can handle the study I would love to be able to do. But yeah, there’s so much, right? 

[00:31:39] Jennifer Maher: Yeah. I love the topic of epigenetics. I’m noticing it’s because there is this curiosity I have about my family and their experience and trying to connect data points for me to make sense of how I became who I am, right? Temperamentally, personality, even how trauma has impacted how I process information. My dyslexia, right? Is that a part? Is that something else? It’s all really very fascinating. But I think too, as a survivor and as a clinician, it feels so good when I can say to myself or to others that they make sense, you know.

[00:32:29] Marion Moreland: I mean that kind of comes back to those attachment needs. Like we want to know that somebody else can kind of validate our experience, that like I’m not crazy. You know as a trauma counselor, I think the thing I spend the most time doing after a traumatic event is normalizing what is being felt, right? Like, yeah, everything you’ve just described to me is a normal reaction to an abnormal event, right? And your body and your brain is trying to figure out what do I do with this new set of stimuli and circumstances that have hit me?

[00:33:15] Bridget Adams: I remember working with a member of our RCC community just coaching around working with parts in the very beginning. She noticed that unlike other areas of her life, she would be flooded with tears when she was doing some of these experiential exercises to go inside and kind of teased it apart a little bit. She was very curious and also wondered if maybe she shouldn’t be doing it. You know, like, is this good for me, or bad for me, or why is this happening? And in the course of the conversation, come to learn that she, her family, had suffered several very traumatic losses when she was an infant. So she would have been a nursing infant when another sibling had a tragic death. And there were two losses, I want to say, before she was four years old. And she’d only thought of those things as historical things in the family because I didn’t know those kids. I wasn’t old enough to, would I even go to the funeral? I don’t know. But what comes, and Marion, maybe you could speak to this a little bit more. But when we start going inside, when we start being open to parts from more and more of a self led place, parts that maybe have a story to tell that at first doesn’t make sense actually have a story to tell and it can maybe come out in tears if it’s a pre verbal experience that had that.

[00:34:35] Marion Moreland: Yeah, for sure. That our traumas find a way to express themselves through parts. You know, they’re gonna come out. That’s why I tell people it’s good to work through your trauma when you can plan it with your coach or therapist, because otherwise it’s going to come out at the most inconvenient time, right? So work on it. But yeah, these early experiences, can often point to things we didn’t realize even happened, where when people have opportunities to go back and verify, like, with a parent or something like that, that, they can find that there was some correlation to what was happening.

[00:35:17] Bridget Adams: Give an example. Are you trying to think of one?

[00:35:21] Marion Moreland: I was, I was trying. The first example that came to mind was a situation where I don’t feel like I could share it without it being specific enough or without identifying somebody. So I’ll give my own like from this retreat. Like on the last day of the retreat, we were like laying down on the mat, which we spent a fair amount of time either laying or sitting. And there was a point that Susan, it was like a internal guided experience. But these were like an hour and a half guided experiences. So you appreciated that you could lay down and move around. So I’m laying there and she says something about, if it feels right, you might consider moving to a different position. I’ve been on my back for a while. I’m like, okay, I’m going to turn over on my side. And I turned over onto my left side, which is the side I sleep on every night.

[00:36:15] Marion Moreland: Basically went into the position that I sleep in pretty much every night, and as I started to do that, my right arm started to tremble, like shake, and I started crying. Well, another part came in and said, you’re not doing this in the big group, so stop that. So we quieted down and we sat there with it for a little while. But it was such a strong, intense experience and like other parts are like, well, this is where you sleep all the time. Why is this happening now? Right? Well, it was a safe place. Working in a group of 30 was not going to feel safe for me for my system. And that was okay. But I went back into my small group and there were two things that came out of it. But one, which I shared when I was talking with someone earlier today. I now understand why I have parts that are completely driven when it comes to being on time. First, my mom and dad will be happy to tell you that I was born nine months to the day they were married. Okay, so got to get it on the right mark, right? Because my dad had been in Japan for a week. And there’s a whole story. And, okay, so nine months to the day. And the other piece of it was my mom telling friends and family that I had to be born on the day I was, because that was my dad’s only day off. So the message my system is getting, not on a conscious level, although I think I heard it probably enough as I was growing up to the story, but was that you have to work on our time schedule. You have to be born on this time schedule, this is the way it works. And so my system has learned that being on time, it’s a challenge. And it’s like probably one of the most dysregulating things in my life. And was the hardest stepping into being a counselor where I have clients scheduled every hour, on the hour. Sometimes that means I only have three minutes, if I’m lucky, in between. And, yeah, cause on time is 20 minutes early. And that’s just all out of that little thing. 

[00:38:38] Marion Moreland: The other piece that came up in doing the work, and I mean, I knew about this consciously, but I don’t have any memories of it. But when I was four, I had to have my tonsils removed. And I have veins that are very hard to hit, and hard to get blood out of, like, even now. I know I’m probably gonna get stuck a few times for most things. And apparently they wiggled the needle in my arm to try to get the vein at four, and I screamed a lot, and it took a lot of people to hold me down, and so much so that when I went, when they went to actually give me the anesthesia, it took like eight adults to hold me down. But in that position, I had that memory, you know, where they put IVs, right? Had that memory of being held down for surgery. And like all of, you know, as a four year old, all of these big people standing around you, pushing you into a hard table, and there’s a bunch of bright lights, and there’s a lot of stuff you don’t understand, all of that started coming up. You know, was that on my list of things to process? No, but obviously it was still locked in my body and in just such a powerful way. So it can be very unexpected things, which I know makes parts of us nervous, right, Jen? Yeah. Yeah, but also noticing like, yeah, it wasn’t comfortable and I was able to set boundaries with my parts to say, I’m not comfortable doing this in the big group. We’re going to go for the smaller. And that was okay. 

[00:40:36] Jennifer Maher: Yeah, no, that, there’s nothing about that is exciting to me and it scares me. I can understand why. It scares parts of me, actually. There are other parts that are really curious and know that it’s really healthy to be able to do that in a big group. I would think that it was intimidating. So I’m really curious as to how you were able to tend to your parts. 

[00:41:04] Marion Moreland: Yeah, just laid there quietly mostly and letting them know, it’s okay, there’s no expectations here. And I think that’s true whenever we’re doing parts work, whether it’s somatic or, you know, where we’re trying to do some insight. We don’t have to go faster than our system is ready, and that’s a big thing because I know that parts of us think the object of IFS is to unburden all the parts and then we’ll have a perfect system and live happily ever after. That’s not happening. You know, yes. Can we lead a more integrated life? Absolutely. But our parts are still going to come up. We’re going to get activated just getting out to the car some days, right?

[00:41:53] Jennifer Maher: Yeah, for sure. And it’s ironic because I make it a point to tell everyone that I’m working with that unburdening for me is never the focus because it’s really about learning how to notice. It’s really about learning how to love those parts in your system that seem big and scary and unlovable. And I found experientially that there’s more internal peace and connection and spontaneous unburdening. My brain slowly rewires a new default and I just slowly notice, wow, I’m thinking about something so differently than I used to. So I like to take unburdening off the table right away. Like, you want to unburden, that’s not what we’re doing. 

[00:42:45] Marion Moreland: You just described the perfect unburdening, as far as I’m concerned. The rituals that we do can be really nice for parts of us, but I think it’s so much better when we realize, you know, every time I went home for Christmas, I always felt like this part got activated. And I went home for Christmas and that part was okay. That’s the unburdening. That’s happened because the part said, you know what? I feel safe with this self. I feel safe in this system. I don’t have to keep carrying that stuff. Yeah. And I think, with the somatic work, I think it really depends on a sense of safety. These were easier areas for me to work in, but there’s others that wouldn’t be as easy. And I think that’s going to be true for most people. And I think we were also, you know, we were talking about movement in this. And I think that’s what was helping was trying to, well, I like kind of bringing movement into things. And so maybe there was just parts that relaxed more around that. 

[00:44:00] Marion Moreland: Susan talks about five different levels of somatic awareness. And the first is just being aware. And then, breath, like noticing your breath. Resonance, that’s the next one, right? What do you feel, that sense you get when you walk up to a person and something doesn’t feel right, you know. And then movement. And then lastly is physical touch. You know, as therapists, sometimes we’re taught don’t touch, don’t touch because, yeah, but I think there is a place for physical touch, particularly when we’re doing somatic work and obviously when there’s consent and awareness of what’s going on. One of the experiences I had with actually using physical touch with someone, which I don’t do very often because most of my clients are remote, but I was able to just put my hands on their shoulders. And they were really anxious going into it, and I was amazed at, like, all of a sudden I could feel their system shift, and they noticed it too, like, suddenly they were co regulating off of my system. And, yeah, just able to really bring a whole lot more calm into it by having another person who had some sense of calm presence. And that can be a real gift. I mean, you think about maybe a time that you were upset and crying or something and somebody came over and held your hand or sat next to you. Right? What are you doing? You’re co regulating, right? And that’s kind of what we do when we work with people as a somatic therapist. As our friend says, we loan people our nervous systems. 

[00:45:59] Jennifer Maher: Yeah. I’m curious as to whether or not touch, in particular, was something that you felt comfortable with prior to the training?

[00:46:12] Marion Moreland: I think I did, and only because I’m used to ballroom dancing. And so, okay, I don’t like people in this up close space, but I am actually really used to being in closed dance position with people that I may not know very well even so parts in me were more comfortable with that. And I think I just have such a fascination with how bodies move and connect. And so, putting touch in that dynamic brought out the geeky parts of me, that loved my biomechanics class, even though it was like, Ooh, do I have to do math? Oh, yeah, but this is cool math, right? And so I think on the level of kind of co regulating our nervous system, the same way, you know, we can teach two bodies to learn to move together, we can teach these nervous systems to work together. 

[00:47:20] Jennifer Maher: Do you notice a difference when you’re working with clients who say experience emotional neglect as a trauma, as opposed to a sexual trauma? How would you approach these two particular individuals differently, or would you? 

[00:47:40] Marion Moreland: That’s a good question. I think there’s going to be probably some differences, although it depends on what each person wants to focus on. With emotional neglect, you know, I guess I kind of started to think in terms of childhood, but that could happen as an adult. It can be about meeting those emotional needs. Whereas, when there’s been sexual trauma, agency was removed, right? And so, being able to help that person’s parts to be able to feel like they have agency is probably going to be my primary focus, more so than anything else. Like, okay, what is, what’s okay? I want you to know you can make these choices. Whereas with maybe when there’s been neglect, I might be a little bit more focused towards trying to help them make sure that the parts can create that secure attachment to self.

[00:48:46] Jennifer Maher: Is the readiness different?

[00:48:50] Marion Moreland: I mean, yeah, I think it really depends on where the person’s at. Are they living in the neglect situation? Did the sexual assault happen yesterday or did it happen 10 years ago, right? It’s going to make a difference. I’m always going to stop to make sure that they can stay within the window of tolerance and if they can’t, then we’re going to work on how can we help them do that before we start trying to explore parts and what might be going on. Usually what I get more often is, parts that are trying to figure out how to do normal things after a sexual trauma. How do I allow somebody to touch me? Yeah, it’s not, yeah, I mean it depends across the board, you know. It’s the individual, right?

[00:49:46] Bridget Adams: And Marion, and I appreciate that you came prepared to this podcast episode to lead us in an experiential exercise around this theme of our body and our parts. 

[00:50:03] Marion Moreland: Okay, so as we’re moving into this experiential exercise, I want to say a couple things. First, if you’re driving, don’t do it. Make sure you’re in a safe place. This exercise in particular, you might find it helpful, if it’s okay with your system to lay down on the floor or a bed where you’re comfortable, always giving yourself permission to move if you need to. The idea here is to be able to attune to your body. And for some of us, this may feel really new or really weird. And that’s okay. If you feel like you can do this for two minutes and then you need to get up and do something else, you’re welcome to do that. Please, take care of your system. And this particular exercise is going to focus on very early times in our creation in utero, some of the movements we may have, well, we probably did if we’re here. But if it starts to feel dysregulating or if you’re aware that maybe there’s been some trauma around your mother’s pregnancy with you, protect yourself, take care of yourself, be kind to your system, because the last thing we want to do is lead your system into feeling like it has to perform, or it has to do something, that’s not what this is about.

[00:51:52] Marion Moreland: Okay, as we move through this experience, I invite you to stay curious. Notice what arises without judgment. This space is for self awareness, allowing your inner system to be seen and understood. Find a quiet, comfortable space where you can either sit or lie down. Close your eyes. If that feels comfortable, and allow your awareness to gently settle within. Take a few deep breaths, inhaling through your nose and exhaling through your mouth. As you breathe, let yourself settle into the moment.

[00:53:13] Marion Moreland: We’re going to go through a few movements or positions, and the first is resting in support. This is simply being. Imagine yourself floating in the womb, completely surrounded, held by warmth, supported without effort. Notice any sensations in your body. Did you feel tension or ease? Is there a part that resists being still? Does another part long for deep rest? They’re all welcome here. There’s no need to fix or change anything. Just allow every part to be present. What do you notice when you allow yourself to simply be?

[00:54:51] Marion Moreland: The next movement is our first impulse towards connection. Tiny impulses from deep within that encourage our hands to float outward, as if reaching into the unknown. If it feels okay, you might extend your arms. Reaching out, and as you’re reaching, notice, is there a need? Is there a part that shows up? Allow these parts to be seen and not judged. Simply let them reach and be met with curiosity. As you reach your hand and you encounter something, perhaps a pillow, a blanket, or simply the air itself. Allow yourself to grasp it. Notice what this movement brings into your system as you grasp. Does a part of you feel like it’s finally holding on to something? Does another part doubt that this support will last?

[00:56:58] Marion Moreland: Grasping is an act of trust, a belief that what we hold will sustain us. What do my parts grasp onto in my life? Let these parts know that you see them and that you acknowledge them. Once we grasp, we receive what’s given. So we take from what is in our extended hand, and usually, as a baby, we pull it back right through our mouth, right? So, with gentle intention, begin drawing what you’re holding towards yourself. Feel your arms and your chest and your shoulders engage in this movement. This act of receiving, or taking, what parts do you notice responding here? Can this part really grasp what it wants? Or does it feel like it’s being held up, held back? Do I allow myself to receive? What does receiving feel like in my body? Thank your parts as they’re showing up.

[00:59:17] Marion Moreland: And the last movement of our sequence is push. So there’s that moment where we receive and then we push outward, preparing to move into a new life, pushing things away, protecting, creating space for ourselves. This is a moment of emergence. A part of you may feel ready to push forward, while another part may feel hesitant to leave the safety of what is known. Both can be here. What does pushing feel like in the body? Is there strength? Resistance? Hesitation? As we draw towards the end here, I’m going to invite you back to that first movement, or lack of movement, of just being with. Settling into that neutral state and noticing, are there any parts which might show up in physical symptoms, or feelings, or sensations that are asking for your attention?

[01:01:18] Marion Moreland: Feel free to pause this audio and take as much time as you need with them. You can also make an arrangement with them to perhaps come back to them. And just thanking all of the parts that have shown up and been with you during this exercise. When you’re ready, come back and we’re gonna do a little bit of a debrief here. Well, Jennifer, as Bridget’s coming back, I have parts of me that want to start by just checking in and seeing how that was for you, because I know this is new ground for some of your parts, and just a lot of tenderness. 

[01:02:46] Jennifer Maher: Yeah, I appreciate that. I think what made this exercise easy was that my system trusts you. We’re friends, right? It makes that type of vulnerability possible. So I definitely noticed that, along with noticing resistance and skepticism. This is weird. I had distractors come up. I can’t believe this. Now I have to hold my arms out. They’re going to be heavy. So just, you know, a lot of, conversations like, are you serious? But also what I was noticing internally too, was just my ability to connect. Just some self energy and just affirm for my parts that they were safe, that this was something we didn’t have to do. I felt this internal, oh, okay, you know, so I think for me at this stage in my IFS work and learning, I’m getting used to being confident that I have the capacity to hold space for those parts of my system that are feeling uncomfortable and assuring them that there is safety. So that part felt really good, even though there was distraction. And also another part, probably, I don’t know, it felt like an inner critic, but definitely like, we have more work to do, Jennifer. We have to get comfortable with this, you know. Yeah. So just a lot of tenderness towards them. Definite discomfort, you know, definite discomfort.

[01:04:59] Marion Moreland: Yeah. Well, and, and welcome to those parts, right? I really appreciate the trust, and I also, like, we’ve known each other long enough to know, like, for you to do this and for your parts to be okay, that’s a lot of your system trusting you, too. And that’s really what we’re looking for here, right? Bridget, yeah, how was that for you?

[01:05:44] Bridget Adams: Well, my disclaimer is I am in the library recording room, at the public library, and so, in the midst of your prompts, there’s also background noise and things, so. Really, I was aware of how very peaceful it felt to be held. That part was easy for me. That part was really easy for me, and very calming and just a nice break from being like on, you know, hosting the podcast and, you know, the things. I would like to listen to it when I’m not in a public library, where I can actually be in a private space, but I will say there was a part with the pushing where I did notice like a part of my lower back on the left side just started kind of flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flicking and I was curious. I don’t have any answers. I don’t know what it was. It wasn’t a heart attack, everybody. I’m okay. It was just like, something that maybe I’ll be able to explore and also bring some curiosity, like, when have I felt that before? Because it’s not the first time. So then to kind of maybe be able to put together some dots. Is there a part that responds to a particular fill-in-the-blank, right? 

[01:06:56] Marion Moreland: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:57] Bridget Adams: And we want to say, Marion, too, not all physical symptoms are parts, right? There’s some physical symptoms that are just physical symptoms. So it’s not that every single, stiff joint or every single flickering something is going to be connected to a part. So just to kind of put that out there. I don’t think we’ve said that yet. Yeah. 

[01:07:15] Marion Moreland: Yeah. Yeah. I do want to say that, yes. But then the next question that comes, well, how do I know? And I will say that I have found it helpful to assume that it’s a part until it’s proven otherwise. And usually, like, if I keep trying to connect with a part that’s somatic, and I’m not getting anything, then I’m gonna let that go for a time and assume that it’s something else, but even, I mean, we didn’t get into a lot of this, and I don’t want to spend a ton of time on it, but there’s some pretty profound stories out there of people who have worked with things like cancer as a part and learned things about their inner system.

[01:08:07] Marion Moreland: So I do tend to err on the side of, I’m going to assume it is until it proves otherwise. And I don’t know that I’ve ever had something prove that it wasn’t. I’ve just found, like, okay, well, if it is a part, it’s not talking, and we’re gonna let that be as it is right now. So, yeah, it’s kind of an interesting approach. There’s a lot of work around chronic fatigue and all those sorts of things. Like, are those parts driving it? But, yes, thank you for bringing that up, because if you break your leg, that’s probably not a part, right? There might be a part in you that’s saying, how could you do that? But it’s, the break probably isn’t a part. On the other hand, are there parts reacting to the trauma to what has happened around that break? Yeah.

[01:09:04] Jennifer Maher: Yeah. When I was listening to Susan’s book, she was talking about the vagus system. And so I know that when I’m talking to myself, when I’m feeling a certain type of way, discomfort, when I’m talking to my clients, when they’re feeling a certain type of way, you know, for me, IBS can be explained by trauma. That makes sense. That’s probably the most prominent one, but, you know, sometimes there’s asthma, that can be related to trauma and we know that biologically that when we are traumatized, there’s a release of cortisol, right? So if our brain is always on and cortisol is always being released, then we can safely assume that there are parts of our body, like our physical body that are being impacted by that. And that is the way our system communicates distress to us, through those signs. When I look at what the book says, understanding Stephen Porges’ understanding of the vagus, when I’m listening to you, this idea that our parts are speaking to us, you know, somatic IFS, it makes sense on paper. It makes a lot of sense on paper.

[01:10:32] Jennifer Maher: Going inside? It’s like, eh, cut it out. No, it’s not. You know, because those are those protective parts that I’m sure are afraid that whenever we connect with a part that’s holding pain, and protecting us from something big, a danger. There’s always this concern of like comfortable chaos, my system being chaotic in this way is comfortable. I’m used to it, right? I know what to expect. I don’t know what to expect when I start doing body work. I don’t know what’s going to come out when I’m doing body work. And so that not knowing, just like emotional flooding, not knowing that our body can actually tolerate the emotional flooding, when we’re remembering a particular trauma. That still is pretty frightening, to think about your body physically reacting or responding, however it is we want to look at it, right? Responding to connection with the part.

[01:11:41] Bridget Adams: And as we begin to bring this in for a landing, I just want to ask you if you could take a minute to ponder what would be a key takeaway? Either something for you, for your own system or something that you would like to offer to a listener.

[01:12:00] Marion Moreland: Yeah, I think the key takeaway for me is just awareness. That’s where it starts. It’s kind of step one and as you like go through Susan’s book, just awareness that something may be going on here, that is not what other parts of me would have expected or think should be happening or all those sorts of things. So just, yeah, start to have an awareness, followed by some curiosity, and see where it takes you. 

[01:12:39] Bridget Adams: I think for me, a key takeaway is the courage that you have shown, Jennifer, in being so vulnerable and so honest about, this is hard. Like, what might this mean? And, you know, it just it kind of puts our money where our mouth is, so to speak, to say, like, all parts are welcome. Like, yeah, you can come in here and say, this doesn’t feel right yet, or this might not ever be a path that my system feels safe taking. That really, I mean, that just speaks volumes to how important slow is in IFS work. It’s like the thing. We don’t have an agenda. We didn’t come in here and we don’t do our IFS work with an agenda. We go in with curiosity and compassion and creativity and try to have clarity. So your courage is, I think, my key takeaway. So really grateful. 

[01:13:30] Jennifer Maher: Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I’m so thankful that I was invited. This is definitely not a topic that I feel comfortable with. And when I raised my hand to say, yeah, I’ll be free, I didn’t notice any resistance, major resistance from my parts that normally would say, why did you do that? Because again, my system trusts Marion and I’ve also learned too, that I have the capacity to give voice to those parts of me that are uncomfortable, that feel safe or unsafe, and to help them to feel safer. And that just feels empowering. It feels really good to be able to come here and share something totally different, something that I don’t really know much about, while, on paper, but that my parts are really trying to stay as far as possible away from. So thank you, Marion, for trusting me, to come here and to be open and honest, and just loving me where I am. 

[01:14:44] Marion Moreland: I’m so grateful that I’ve had both of you here. Yeah, it’s obviously it’s different not having Dr. Peter here, but I feel like I just really value the work and the relationships that I have with each of you. And so bringing this together was, it was really fun for my parts.

[01:15:07] Jennifer Maher: Yeah. I was nervous, but fine.

[01:15:16] Bridget Adams: I was going to say, thank you Dr. Peter for the deep dive in 2025 and giving us the reins to the ship. Thank you. Yeah. I want to let everyone know that the upcoming episode, episode 163, is going to be called Introduction to Systems Thinking. And in that episode, Dr. Peter, Dr. Gerry and I discuss the systems of systems thinking and explore some deep ideas about the connection between the natural and the spiritual realms in our ongoing formation. And so Dr. Peter wants to make sure we don’t miss it. Okay, so don’t miss it. Also want to remind everyone there’s some awesome resources at the Souls and Hearts website. And really encourage a discussion in the comments of this post when it’s up on YouTube. We’ll see those and do our very best to respond to them. And so if you’ve got any comments or questions or anything you’d like to pop in that space, please be our guest. All right, let’s close with our invocations. Our Lady, our Mother, Untier of Knots, pray for us. St. Joseph, pray for us. St. John the Baptist, pray for us.